Leach St Ives Studio Pottery lugged vase but who could be CW or MC mark?

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Post by Neil62 October 16th 2023, 8:14 pm

Impulse purchase - pretty sure it’s Leach studio pottery which is why I bought it - lovely glaze & shape but no idea who made it.
The other mark perhaps MC or WC but because of the glaze could be anything!
Also an old label on the bottom vaguely readable perhaps AST or HST and a T and other letters above.
Any ideas gratefully received!
TIA
Leach St Ives Studio Pottery lugged vase but who could be CW or MC mark? Img_6810
Leach St Ives Studio Pottery lugged vase but who could be CW or MC mark? Img_6811
Leach St Ives Studio Pottery lugged vase but who could be CW or MC mark? 674fe510
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Post by Pugmill October 16th 2023, 10:04 pm

Does it have three lugs around the top?
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Post by Neil62 October 16th 2023, 10:06 pm

Yes it does do you want me to photograph them?
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Post by benwilliams October 17th 2023, 7:26 am

It’s a beautiful pot!
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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 7:33 am

benwilliams wrote:It’s a beautiful pot!

Thank you
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Post by philpot October 17th 2023, 8:44 am

Nice pot! Unusual for Leach St Ives as well. The odds being that it was probably made in the late stages of the Leach pottery. In the later 70's when the apprentices, had much more freedom in what they made, and the general organisation was a lot looser. No Bill Marshall there to run a tight ship.
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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 10:21 am

Thanks Philpot - fear it’s going to be one of those filed under unidentified though I will say it’s strange how many I do find after filing them that way!!!
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Post by Pugmill October 17th 2023, 10:29 am

Similar shape with the 3 lugs

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/768642059/pot-studio-pottery-large-globular-vase
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Post by philpot October 17th 2023, 10:36 am

That link Pugmill is to a piece by Shigeyoshi Ichino. I have got a couple of his pieces, and he used a Japanese type mark for his work at St Ives.
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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 10:44 am

philpot wrote:That link Pugmill is to a piece by Shigeyoshi Ichino. I have got a couple of his pieces, and he used a Japanese type mark for his work at St Ives.

Same here Philpot- I’ve got two pieces by him but I’m going to do a bit more research - the lugs are different but I get what pugmill is saying!
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Post by philpot October 17th 2023, 10:55 am

The Marion Whybrow book has a long list of St Ives potters in the back pages. There is one name that stands out with initials that might correspond to the ones on this piece. MICHAEL CARTWIGHT who was at St Ives 1973-75.
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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 11:05 am

philpot wrote:The Marion Whybrow book has a long  list of St Ives  potters in the back pages. There is one name that stands out with initials that might correspond to the ones on this piece. MICHAEL CARTWIGHT who was at St Ives 1973-75.

I meant to look at that book this morning but…..went for breakfast and you beat me to it.
Just got back so will put my research boots on.
I have helped people all my life but I always feel humble when people go out of their way to help me!
Thanks Philpot.
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Post by NaomiM October 17th 2023, 1:25 pm

Not his mark in BSPM but it may be incomplete 

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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 1:34 pm

Thanks Naomi - I’ll have a look at his work but definite possibility!
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Post by studio-pots October 17th 2023, 3:39 pm

NaomiM wrote:Not his mark in BSPM but it may be incomplete 

Leach St Ives Studio Pottery lugged vase but who could be CW or MC mark? Img_3327

Personally I don't have much faith in Michael Cartwright's entry in that book, as there seems to have been very little investigation into individual potter's marks while they were at the Leach Pottery.

I was speaking with a customer of mine about him just a few month's ago and he said that Cartwright was influenced very much by Bill Marshall and Bernard's pots during his 18 months at the Leach Pottery. It is said by those in the know that he made his best work there. In Marion Whybrow's book, Leach Pottery St Ives, there is a tea pot by Cartwright on page 209. The shape of the teapot's body is very much like that of your vase.

Therefore I wouldn't be surprised if it was made by Michael Cartwright.

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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 4:05 pm

I think you are correct in what you say not just about the Leach potters but for example Takeshi Yasuda, his early mark is shown as a cross in a sort of oval shape and then paper labels. I know that is incorrect and his early mark , confirmed kindly and absolutely by his partner at that time is nothing like that so I take on board what you are saying Studio.
I think it would be inevitable that potters working at the Leach would change their mark after they moved on…..would make sense.
I can’t pretend that I have any knowledge regarding the formation of a pot ….I can’t and so it’s hard for me to look at something and say with any certainty it is by X especially someone I know nothing about.
Thanks for your input
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Post by NaomiM October 17th 2023, 5:57 pm

I don't think anyone has put the Leach St Ives stamps in date order but that would probably help to date unknown marks like this.

Edited to add, Byron Temple used a small Leach St Ives stamp in the 70s (I think). If correct, it would also date this vase to the 70s.

https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t9954p425-the-leach-pottery-st-ives#204150


Last edited by NaomiM on October 20th 2023, 1:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Neil62 October 17th 2023, 6:11 pm

NaomiM wrote:I don't think anyone has put the Leach St Ives stamps in date order but that would probably help to date unknown marks like this.
Very small one this in comparison to the ones used on earthenware!
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Post by denbydump October 17th 2023, 7:13 pm

I'm seeing HJ, or even MJ.
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Post by Neil62 October 18th 2023, 8:06 am

It is a bit of a mare and isn’t helped by the fact that there were so many very capable potters who passed through Leach pottery and then went all over the World and probably changed their marks as well. I had an issue with a Winchcombe pot with some trailed Slipware on it which was solved with a few very knowledgable people’s help who worked or still work there but there was only a limited number of possible answers.
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Post by Neil62 October 18th 2023, 5:22 pm

For what it’s worth (and probably not a lot!!) I believe this is very early Geoffrey WHITING, not just because I like his work which I do but because his mark changed several times.
I found an early mark on a pot sold at auction. It also has an early Avoncroft Pottery mark which also evolved significantly. The mark in effect is a W inside a G but on both the known and questioned mark the G could be mistaken for a C. My pots more bulbous than the one sold at BK’s but it’s not entirely dissimilar.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/knights-decorative-arts/catalogue-id-2846114/lot-11915785
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Post by Neil62 October 18th 2023, 5:26 pm

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Post by NaomiM October 18th 2023, 5:37 pm

They are completely different

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Post by Neil62 October 18th 2023, 5:48 pm

NaomiM wrote:They are completely different

You have lost me Naomi - are you saying the pots are completely different - I wouldn’t seek to argue that point but in terms of the mark I would.
The main reason for showing the pot is because that was what the mark was on.
I haven’t seen any marks which are similar other than that one it is a W inside a G and that is what the questioned mark is.
I can’t find a known mark for for Whiting when he was at Leach training in 1949.
Can you clarify whether you are referring to the pots or the marks please
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Post by NaomiM October 18th 2023, 8:17 pm

You’ve gone down the wrong rabbit hole. There are no similarities between Whiting’s marks or pots and your mystery pot

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