Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps?

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Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Empty Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps?

Post by Neil62 September 3rd 2023, 10:25 am

Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5717
Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5716
Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5810Good morning,
I purchased a lot last week at auction which included 8 pieces by Richard Batterham.
A bowl, butter / cheese dish, a plate, four coffee cups and a jug.
I’m quite happy they are by RB though as usual none are marked.
This was amongst the lot which could best be described kindly as eclectic. Four of the pieces had minor damage.
This one is unmarked and undamaged but the tenmoku glaze, the speckling in the inside of the pot and the bevelling of the foot suggest to me it is by RB. The fact there are 8 other pieces by him helps as well!
I haven’t seen a goblet by him so I would appreciate any feedback /thoughts as to the maker.
Thanks in advance
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Post by philpot September 3rd 2023, 1:59 pm

Personally I have never seen one. Not in auction or real life. There was not one in the V&A exhibition of his work. He did small coffee cups. But I do not know of the did any cups and saucers.
Often in the 70's goblets were made in sets with a carafe. You sea a lot of Aldermaston goblets for instance. But I have never seen a carafe.
Then again, does it feel and handle like a Batterham piece? His work does have a certain quality all of its own. If you think in your judgement it is one. Then try selling it as one. The final place to test these things is in the market place. It will either sell for a nice lot of loot because of its 'rarity'. Or else be completely ignored! Batterham had a long and copious career. He might well indeed have made goblets. It is certainly reasonable to argue that he Might have made this!
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Post by Potty September 3rd 2023, 2:45 pm

I have my doubts personally, it's well made, but goblets were very popular at one point, many are also well made and most of them seem to be unmarked. Batterham's work usually screams that he made it and the only Batterham goblets that I have seen (online) have also screamed Batterham.

I never tend to put much faith in what an item was sold with as a factor when it comes to attribution, as it tends to blinker people. (talking from past experiances, not this post) So the question would be, if you just bought this goblet on it's own, would your first throught have been RB?

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Post by Potty September 3rd 2023, 2:50 pm

Potty wrote:I never tend to put much faith in what an item was sold with as a factor when it comes to attribution, as it tends to blinker people. (talking from past experiances, not this post)

philpot wrote:Then try selling it as one. The final place to test these things is in the market place. It will either sell for a nice lot of loot because of its 'rarity'. Or else be completely ignored! Batterham had a long and copious career.

People doing the above is one of the main reasons for my view above Cheeky

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Post by philpot September 3rd 2023, 6:20 pm

Potty wrote:
Potty wrote:I never tend to put much faith in what an item was sold with as a factor when it comes to attribution, as it tends to blinker people. (talking from past experiances, not this post)

philpot wrote:Then try selling it as one. The final place to test these things is in the market place. It will either sell for a nice lot of loot because of its 'rarity'. Or else be completely ignored! Batterham had a long and copious career.

People doing the above is one of the main reasons for my view above Cheeky

The market is always the final arbiter in anything! Personally I thought I had made it clear in the first Paragraph that I thought it was unlikely to be by Batterham. I myself would not buy it. But he was a very prolific potter for well over 60 years. So, in the final analysis a blanket and complete no is impossible to give.
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Post by NaomiM September 3rd 2023, 7:12 pm

Goblets are rarely marked even by potters who mark practically everything they make. Ditto cheese domes

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Post by Neil62 September 3rd 2023, 7:52 pm

NaomiM wrote:Goblets are rarely marked even by potters who mark practically everything they make. Ditto cheese domes

Doesn’t really matter given that the butter dish / cheese dome is by Batterham and he rarely marked any of his work.
I’ve attached some photographs.Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5812
Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5811
Unmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Img_5813

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Post by Neil62 September 3rd 2023, 7:53 pm

And last but not least the baseUnmarked goblet - Richard Batterham perhaps? Image56
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Post by Potty September 3rd 2023, 8:36 pm

philpot wrote:The market is always the final arbiter in anything!

It's really not though. All it takes is 2 gullible collectors, or 1 gullible collector and an auctioneer taking bids off the wall, for an item of no real value to fetch a decent sum. Tell me you have not seen this happen time and time again Big Laughter

Auctioneers/valuers that take the degree route even have classes on what is basically a guide how to put a spin on auction titles, to achieve higher prices, due to many bidders being gullible, inexperianced or both. Caveat emptor and all that Cheeky

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Post by philpot September 4th 2023, 6:06 am

You re right of course Potty. But because of the internet the auction market has widened in the past 25 years beyond auctioneers wildest dreams. With a huge amount more of the general public buying at auction now, There is great deal more of 'naive mug' bidding.
But of course, It is still the market!
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