Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
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Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Hi, I am a new member. My mother has 3 bowls given as a wedding present in the 1950s and purchased from Primavera in Sloane Square. She always understood them to be by Lucie Rie, but there is no stamped mark and just a painted initial N. The glaze looks to be brush applied, not dipped. ![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2013](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2013.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2014](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2014.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2015](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2015.jpg)
Any ideas? Thanks![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2017](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2017.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2018](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2018.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2013](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2013.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2014](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2014.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2015](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2015.jpg)
Any ideas? Thanks
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2017](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2017.jpg)
![Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who? Img-2018](https://i.servimg.com/u/f61/20/48/61/60/img-2018.jpg)
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Primavera moved to Cambridge in 1959. I wonder if they kept their records from Sloane Square. Maybe best to take the bowls there and ask them.
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Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Thanks, that's an idea. I live nearby, so can try that.
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Primavera was taken over by Jeremy Waller in 1999 and he had not connection with Henry Rothschild, who started the gallery in London, so I can't see them having anything there. In fact I think Henry left his records to the Shipley Art gallery in Gateshead.
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Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Primavera has passed through a couple of hands since Henry Rothschild ran it.
Henry Rothschild's collection and documents are in the Shipley Art Gallery in Gateshead.
I think you are right in thinking they are not Lucie Rie. That type of crackle glaze glazing on the inside is something she did not use I think.
Are you absolutely sure they were bought in Primavera in the 50's? The problem being that there was a small pool of excellent potters in the 1950's. So the selection of anybody at all doing work like this to fit that period and do is quite difficult.
Henry Rothschild's collection and documents are in the Shipley Art Gallery in Gateshead.
I think you are right in thinking they are not Lucie Rie. That type of crackle glaze glazing on the inside is something she did not use I think.
Are you absolutely sure they were bought in Primavera in the 50's? The problem being that there was a small pool of excellent potters in the 1950's. So the selection of anybody at all doing work like this to fit that period and do is quite difficult.
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Did they stock European potters too? Might not be British
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Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
According to Lucie Rie's autobiography Primavera closed in London in 1971. He opened the Cambridge shop in 1969.
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Cheers. Their Wikipedia is wrong (not surprised
)
![Laughter](/users/1414/55/01/63/smiles/314189.gif)
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Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
They were bought in 1954. I had understood that were bought from Primavera, but those who would know are no longer alive. Thanks for the recommendations about the Rothschild archive, that is helpful. They were reasonably well used, I don't know if that would account for the crazing/crackle.
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
1954 actually makes it even more difficult to identify anyone! There is Primavera booklet which I have. It gives an appendix of Potters who showed in specific exhibitions. Not However the ones in just general stock.
Those who exhibited in 1954 were Paul Barron,Percy Brown, and Geoffrey Whiting. I doubt if it is any of them. Equally there are not many quality European potters that he would stock in 1954.
Those who exhibited in 1954 were Paul Barron,Percy Brown, and Geoffrey Whiting. I doubt if it is any of them. Equally there are not many quality European potters that he would stock in 1954.
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
The crackle glaze may be deliberate; formed during firing and emphasised by rubbing charcoal into the cracks.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
That makes it even more baffling Naomi! What early 1950's potters were using that technique?
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
True. Maybe someone influenced by Japanese ceramics
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Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
The only potter I can find in the Primavera book with any remote connection with an N mark is William Newland. He used a painted WN mark in 1952. He is a significant potter, but I have never seen anything like this by him before. But his work did vary, and he experimented somewhat
Wilbbraham, have you any idea what clay this might be made of? If porcelain it would be quite light. If earthenware it would be heavier. William Newland nearly almost worked in earthenware.
Wilbbraham, have you any idea what clay this might be made of? If porcelain it would be quite light. If earthenware it would be heavier. William Newland nearly almost worked in earthenware.
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Interesting. I will find out and come back to you. Thanks
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Hi They are definitely not porcelain.
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
This is probably going to be one of those unknown imponderables. It is both the early date, the place where purchased, the crackle glaze, and the lack of a mark. One tends to forget that in 1953, Britain was still in rationing from WW2. There were just not that many studio potters around then.
Oh, if you wanted to see some excellent Lucie Rie work there is a superb exhibition on at Kettle's Yard at this moment,
https://www.kettlesyard.co.uk/events/exhibition-opening-lucie-rie-the-adventure-of-pottery/
Oh, if you wanted to see some excellent Lucie Rie work there is a superb exhibition on at Kettle's Yard at this moment,
https://www.kettlesyard.co.uk/events/exhibition-opening-lucie-rie-the-adventure-of-pottery/
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
The Sainsbury Centre website has a pictue of an "early" bowl by Lucie Rie with a crackle glaze. I am sure she was not the only potter using crackle glazes at the time. I came across the technique of staining the crackle lines with metallic oxides and refiring to fix the effect, in the 1960s (from Robin Welch I think), and it was used by David Leach in the 1970s (see p100 of The Craft of the Potter) and he could well have been using it much earlier. I have no suggestions for the N mark.
LisaLan- Number of posts : 24
Location : Brittany
Registration date : 2019-08-25
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Thanks for the suggestion about the exhibition. I hope you enjoy it. My daughter is the curator. She suggested I contacted this forum as she drew a blank as well... I think you are right, we will be unlikely to trace these bowls. I am positive about the date, the place of purchase could potentially be wishful thinking/wrongly remembered by my parents.
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
If the place is uncertain, then another strong possibility might well be the Berkeley Galleries, 20 Davies Street, London It was founded by William Ohly in 1947, and ceased trading in 1977. This was the probably the first gallery to hold exhibitions of Lucie Rie's work holding several in the early 50's. One of first V&A Lucie Rie's pots was a purchase from their 1950 exhibition.
Their areas of interest were much wider than Henry Rothschild's work. Historical and contemporary African and Eastern, work. Other probably vaguer possibilities might be Gimpel Fils and the Redfern Gallery which also showed some studio pottery in the early 50's.
Your daughter must be so proud and excited at curating the Kettle's Yard exhibition.
Their areas of interest were much wider than Henry Rothschild's work. Historical and contemporary African and Eastern, work. Other probably vaguer possibilities might be Gimpel Fils and the Redfern Gallery which also showed some studio pottery in the early 50's.
Your daughter must be so proud and excited at curating the Kettle's Yard exhibition.
philpot- Number of posts : 6579
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Not Lucie Rie, but v similar, who?
Thanks for these suggestions. I will do some trawling. The Rie exhibition was 4 years in the making. Looking forward to seeing it finally!
wilbraham5jq- Number of posts : 7
Location : Cb21 5jq
Registration date : 2023-03-06
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