Dating Leach St Ives standardware
+2
NaomiM
lindylou08
6 posters
Page 1 of 2
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
In theory it should be possible to form a timeline based on the shape of the St Ives stamps....but someone needs to put it together.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
The glaze loss round the rim might be a gaze fault called shivering, which happens during firing or cooling, at the time of manufacture, rather than a sign of age. This might be a fairly recent ‘second’ from the pottery.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Interesting. Is that stoneware or earthenware? Its often difficult to tell from a photo, as they used a lot of different mixtures of clays in the early days. If it is earthenware its pre 1937.
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
I put up a standard ware catalogue from the early 60's some while back. Halfway down this thread. Might give you some idea in terms of dimensions, and were they making it then.
https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t9954p25-leach-pottery-st-ives?highlight=bernard+leach
https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t9954p25-leach-pottery-st-ives?highlight=bernard+leach
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Thanks Philpot, I've seen a couple of the images of standardware including the ones you posted. This jug is definitely earthenware. Holds just over 3 pints. The neck is more slender than ones I've seen.
Bought it from a guy who had some items from an 80+year old man who told him it was his mother's stuff. But then....
The seller knew nothing about ceramics. Sadly I got to his table a while after the start of the sale and think may have missed stuff😣
Bought it from a guy who had some items from an 80+year old man who told him it was his mother's stuff. But then....
The seller knew nothing about ceramics. Sadly I got to his table a while after the start of the sale and think may have missed stuff😣
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Now that is a good find. You lucky person. It thought it might be early, at it has that look. How big is it? It becomes very interesting from hereon tho. Because that is a big size jug for back then. Unusually big. So who made it?
MMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
MMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
I hoped that was the case. The loss of the glaze is either side of the rim. It makes me think it happened over time maybe holding the jug under a tap
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
It looks like ‘shivering’ to me; where the glaze fails to stick to the clay body beneath.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
To me it looks like post-firing damage from being used, I believe the term is fritting, basically a bunch of chips to the glaze that did not penetrate the earthenware body. But I also think what caused this to happen so easily would have been from the glaze not adhering as well to the rim...
_________________
lozzy68 wrote:I Had A Feeling It Wasn't A gnome As Studio-Pots Said There Is No Hat On Him
NaomiM wrote:I'm watching other Willies, so maybe I'll get one at some point.
studio-pots wrote:I know my raku
Potty- Number of posts : 3583
Location : Midlands
Registration date : 2010-09-28
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
The Leach pottery in the early years was notorious for firing badly. They had a lot to learn. So could it be from those early years? Entirely guesswork really. On one hand, a piece this big would surely have had a personal mark? Lot of work going on there. On the other hand, there were vague versions of 'standard ware' in the mid 20's. Could this be one?
Most Earthenware you see from St Ives is generally from the early 30's, and mainly thrown by Harry Davis. Dear old Bernard went walkabout for a couple of years then, mainly off to Dartington. The Elmhirsts money was Very attractive! So Harry Davis was mainly left in charge, and he spent a lot of time and energy in experimenting with forms of 'standard ware' Now Harry, was a very, very good thrower. His St Ives items you see from the 30's are usually very well made and of excellent form. But is this of 'excellent form'. Looks a bit rough and ready.
Its all Ifs and Buts, and guesswork. My advice is to hold on to it for a couple of years. Its the 100th anniversary of the Leach St Ives pottery in 1920. Items like this will the be considered 'genuine antiques', and of course they will assume ever greater significance.
Oh Lucky you..........!
Most Earthenware you see from St Ives is generally from the early 30's, and mainly thrown by Harry Davis. Dear old Bernard went walkabout for a couple of years then, mainly off to Dartington. The Elmhirsts money was Very attractive! So Harry Davis was mainly left in charge, and he spent a lot of time and energy in experimenting with forms of 'standard ware' Now Harry, was a very, very good thrower. His St Ives items you see from the 30's are usually very well made and of excellent form. But is this of 'excellent form'. Looks a bit rough and ready.
Its all Ifs and Buts, and guesswork. My advice is to hold on to it for a couple of years. Its the 100th anniversary of the Leach St Ives pottery in 1920. Items like this will the be considered 'genuine antiques', and of course they will assume ever greater significance.
Oh Lucky you..........!
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
I think fritting is where an impurity or larger than average piece of grogg pops under the glaze, pushing it off and forming what looks like an impact crater. If this was damage from use, the glaze around the top of the rim would be missing too.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Looks like a glaze and clay colour used by David Leach - eg. when he started Aylesford Pottery, which might help to date it.
https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t12066p25-david-leach#163238
https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t12066p25-david-leach#163238
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Aylesford start was 1954. That is several decades later than this piece.
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Does the damage to or fault in the glaze massively affect value in these old pieces would you say?
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Many of these pre-War pieces have the kind of damage seen here due to what philpot has written above. Collectors of earthenware are more accepting of damage than collectors of stoneware and porcelain, so it will have some effect on what someone might pay but not significantly. If this was a piece of stoneware Leach Standard ware in this condition then it would be pretty much worthless but this will have value.
_________________
Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
There is a lot of obvious damage, so, yes, it will affect the value and reduce the number of collectors wanting it. Plus it doesn’t have a potter’s personal mark which will also reduce its value.
_________________
Carrot cake is just fake cake
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Value is always relative. If this could be specifically be dated as an early piece-first five years or so- then the very damage is part of the narrative. Damage was common. If its a early 30's piece, then damage is a lot more significant, as they had sorted the kiln out by then, and 'perfect' was the norm.
Whatever.... their very rarity gives them value.How much is almost entirely down to the market at the time.
Snapshot.https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/Search?q=leach earthenware
Whatever.... their very rarity gives them value.How much is almost entirely down to the market at the time.
Snapshot.https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/Search?q=leach earthenware
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Thanks for all your thoughts. May not keep it for 2 years. As it cost so little may try the market soon
lindylou08- Number of posts : 655
Location : West Sussex
Registration date : 2012-11-09
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
Choose your market carefully!
philpot- Number of posts : 6733
Location : cambridge
Registration date : 2010-11-06
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
NaomiM wrote:I think fritting is where an impurity or larger than average piece of grogg pops under the glaze, pushing it off and forming what looks like an impact crater. If this was damage from use, the glaze around the top of the rim would be missing too.
This is relating to Chinese Porcelain, but this is how I understand it, but it could be wrong!
http://www.gotheborg.com/glossary/fritting.shtml
"or to have been cracked open by a soft impact, which would not otherwise have damaged the porcelain. " Is what I think happened to this jug, i.e. was sold being "perfect" but due to the glaze having an unseen fault, the galze came away with light impacts over time.
I'm getting a bit Sherlock now
_________________
lozzy68 wrote:I Had A Feeling It Wasn't A gnome As Studio-Pots Said There Is No Hat On Him
NaomiM wrote:I'm watching other Willies, so maybe I'll get one at some point.
studio-pots wrote:I know my raku
Potty- Number of posts : 3583
Location : Midlands
Registration date : 2010-09-28
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
That is my understanding too, Potty.
_________________
Now you should know by now that Potty and I need to see your bottom - we're funny that way!
Re: Dating Leach St Ives standardware
22 Crawford St. wrote:[ Would love a comprehensive... dating list ]
Wrong site, maybe try match.com?
_________________
lozzy68 wrote:I Had A Feeling It Wasn't A gnome As Studio-Pots Said There Is No Hat On Him
NaomiM wrote:I'm watching other Willies, so maybe I'll get one at some point.
studio-pots wrote:I know my raku
Potty- Number of posts : 3583
Location : Midlands
Registration date : 2010-09-28
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Page 1 of 2
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum