Auctioneers mark ups....

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Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 9th 2018, 3:28 pm

When do all the charges of an auctioneer become literally too much? Looking at the upcoming Wooley and Wallis sale on 21 March, which has some studio pottery and a whole load of Richard Parkinson pottery, amidst all the the Clarice Cliffe and art pottery. Anyways; if you bid Online at the Saleroom as a buyer, your charges on top of the hammer price would be 33.6%. Okay that is Buyer's premium, Saleroom charge and Vat. But.....it adds up to a truly jaw dropping amount above and beyond the hammer price.
Obviously it is a business decision. But, those sort of charges must surely be detrimental to the final price the seller gets. Never mind that the seller has the same sort of rip-off. Photo charges, insurance charges, Lot charges...and anything else they can invent.
How much can the market bear?
,
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by dantheman on March 9th 2018, 3:30 pm

20% is my limit

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by Potty on March 9th 2018, 3:37 pm

Makes no difference as a buyer as long as you factor it in, though the estimates(and likely reserve price) considering the buyers premium on most lots these days seem crazy.

It's just a hidden way to screw the vendors really, if you add this to their "comissions", "insurance" and "cataloging fee" then the "true comission" they are taking from vendors is insane.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 9th 2018, 3:58 pm

Wooley and Wallis of course are one of the 'leading' provincial auctioneers.They are the ones who got umtpy money for that recent rare American teapot.
Ebay is interesting. For the buyer(given their 'customer is always right' policy} its a nightmare. But to the seller? Its free!!! A John Ward piece apparently sold for £4000 the other day, and a couple of Rupert Spira pieces sold for £900 each.
 The ultra posh auctioneers-Sothebys,Bonhams,Christies, et al are probably too big to care. But as to British provincial auctioneers. How much can you inflate the bubble before it busrts?


Last edited by philpot on March 9th 2018, 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by NaomiM on March 9th 2018, 5:12 pm

“For the seller it’s free”? It’s 10% charge plus a charge for using PayPal and 10% charge on postage

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 9th 2018, 5:42 pm

Thanks Naomi.I've edited it.
Seller costs? Well it depends on what Special Offer e-mails you get from Ebay/ whether you are a business seller if you are a top rated seller.. blah blah.Its not a level playing field. But I have gone by a rough 15% rule of thumb. Ebay +postage surcharge+ Paypal in all selling. Maybe slightly up or down depending on the various specialist charges. It is still an awful lot cheaper than the final sum (the genie from thin air bit depending on profits to auctioneer) for most sellers from Terrestrial aucrions.
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by MCWebs on March 10th 2018, 8:16 am

The Auctions are far too weighted towards the seller - No guarantee condition reports - no return of sale within specified days - and recently I went to pick up my lot from an auction house only to be shown the wrong lot and it transpired they added the wrong label on the saleroom picture and poor muggins here had to just lump it... the other buyer who was sold the same lot was at the sale room and had cleared it!!!!

I was also at an auction in the Bridport area where after the sale had ended a customer banged into a shelf knocking over a few Peter Simpson pieces (only by the grace of god that mine was a spherical and it just rocked a little) but the auctioneer had the temerity to say oh I'm sure the damage was already on it!!!! BUNCH OF SHARKS in my opinion!!!

33% is ludicrous - it's just bonkers!!!
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by studio-pots on March 10th 2018, 9:41 am

MCWebs wrote:The Auctions are far too weighted towards the seller - No guarantee condition reports - no return of sale within specified days - and recently I went to pick up my lot from an auction house only to be shown the wrong lot and it transpired they added the wrong label on the saleroom picture and poor muggins here had to just lump it... the other buyer who was sold the same lot was at the sale room and had cleared it!!!!

I was also at an auction in the Bridport area where after the sale had ended a customer banged into a shelf knocking over a few Peter Simpson pieces (only by the grace of god that mine was a spherical and it just rocked a little) but the auctioneer had the temerity to say oh I'm sure the damage was already on it!!!!  BUNCH OF SHARKS in my opinion!!!  

33% is ludicrous - it's just bonkers!!!

33% is around what they get from sellers too, certainly here in outer London, unless you are a long-standing seller with a special deal.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by 22 Crawford St. on March 10th 2018, 10:50 am

Just to point out that all the added buyer fees also rip off the seller as bids will be lower because of the add ons.

The sellers only gets a share of the hammer not the overall total. So it's double sneaky.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by MCWebs on March 10th 2018, 11:01 am

its money for jam for the auctioneers - what'll it be next £1 a sheet of bubble wrap - bah humbug!!!
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by MCWebs on March 11th 2018, 8:50 am

I see Tooveys auction is 35% (29% BP + 6% SR).. ??? the madness continues
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by denbydump on March 11th 2018, 11:27 am

Milking it while they can, with all the endless free advertising on the game shows,
daily, on prime time telly.

Most pro dealers I know, have pretty well shunned the auctions as a source
of stock, leaving it to the "hobby" and "wannabe" amateurs.
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by studio-pots on March 11th 2018, 6:39 pm

I haven't bought anything from an auction house for 3 years.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by NaomiM on March 11th 2018, 9:38 pm

I got a job lot at Ewbanks in Mary Wondrausch’s sale but it was a bit of a faff. Probably won’t bother again.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 12th 2018, 8:45 am

See Toovey's is now 35.4% in their present sale. Its a fairly pedestrian listing of Studio pottery in the sale, and with that sort of commission things might well struggle. They are not at the top of the pecking order in provincial auctioneers, but very near the top level in seller charges.
Have bought from them several times before. But not now.
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 12th 2018, 8:55 am

Whereas it is 21.6% at Adam Partridges specialist Studio sale on Friday.
Virtually 14% difference,
Interestingly, Ebay seems to be getting higher prices. A John Ward sold for £4000 in the last few weeks, and a couple of Rupert Spira pieces for £900 each.
But then , Ebay also has serious risks for both buyer and seller. Suppose you take your choice.
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by MCWebs on March 12th 2018, 9:06 am

Do you think they will add more to the overall figure as well because of the changes in the additional credit card charges being scrapped?
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by NaomiM on March 12th 2018, 10:29 am

I think more valuable items will almost always go to auction rather than eBay, and achieve a better price despite the higher fees. I think that John Ward had been knocking around on eBay for a year or so.

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 13th 2018, 7:18 am

You are undoubtedly right there Naomi. But the posh high end auctioneers are very picky about what they handle in terms of value. Sothebys is paddling around at the lower end value in its 'Made in Britain' sales, but only testing the water. With its closure of its South Kengsington salerooms, Christies have completely abandoned that area of the Market.


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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by NaomiM on March 13th 2018, 10:46 am

Yes, Christie’s, Sotheby’s and Bonhams only want the Lucie Ries and Bernard Leach’s. I contacted one of them a while back about selling Daum vase but they never replied. But Woolley and Wallace and Adam Partridge would be my first port of call

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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by philpot on March 14th 2018, 7:00 am

Wooley and Wallis studio is subsumed into their Clarice Cliffe etc sales most of the time. The only decent one is in December. They also have this nasty habit of grouping lots of pieces together to make up 'value'
Adam [artridge is excellent. Jason knows what he is doing, and the condition reports are invaluable But it is a bit far Noerth.
Maak is always worth thinking about. Her four day 'in auction' viewing in a gallery just around the corner from the National gallery are always a treat. She probably has the best mixture high end studio of them all.
Mallams are the only other one worth thinking about, who actually know their stuff.
The rest are completely haphazard in their knowledge of studio pottery. To the extent that you need to be very careful indeed when selling!
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Re: Auctioneers mark ups....

Post by MCWebs on March 18th 2018, 8:34 pm

Be careful with Maak - I bought a lot way back and they transfer to diff location charge a bit for storage and dont open at weekends so cant pick them up without taking a day off work or pay the astronomic delivery fees - Beware!!!!
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