Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot?

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Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Empty Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot?

Post by seandux June 13th 2015, 5:45 am

Found in the North West of England, does anyone recognise the mark on this tea pot and perhaps the maker and date?  I've been through my Miller's guide and haven't found anything.  The tea pot measures about 24 cms tall and is about 19 cms across at the widest part (end of spout to end of handle).  Any help would be much appreciated.

FULL IMAGE

Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Rod%20tea%20pot%201%20small_zpsfud4kxcf

DETAIL OF LID

Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Rod%20tea%20pot%202%20small_zpssxkdke16

DETAIL OF DECORATION

Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Rod%20tea%20pot%204%20small_zpspgzbv3bn

MARK

Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Rod%20tea%20pot%203%20small_zpse7ufo5o7
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Post by hercules brabazon June 13th 2015, 11:25 am

I'm not sure its a potter's mark in the modern sesnse , rather one of those little bits of decoration they used in the 18th and early 19th centuries to hide a blemish.

It looks very much like earlyish Worcester, or an imitation of it, but I'm no expert.
http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/an-18th-century-worcester-porcelain-tea-canister-920-c-4874a2bb68
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/453245149972268625/

From the photos the green on yours looks a bit  less subtle than on those examples, and there probably are copies around.
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Post by studio-pots June 13th 2015, 12:54 pm

It's a coffee or chocolate pot rather than teapot and in a 18th century style, although I suspect it is mid to late 19th century. It's earthenware and the decoration looks mid range rather than the finest quality.

The "mark" is probably there to suggest it is grander than it is so I imagine the actual place it was made and where it was decorated (could be two different places) will remain a mystery.

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Post by seandux June 14th 2015, 10:10 am

Thanks - much appreciated
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Post by denbydump June 14th 2015, 12:49 pm

What SP said is correct, from the foot rim, it looks to be earthenware, but a lot of
work has gone into this, with the gilding etc.
If not porcelain, then Staffordshire would be the favourite, Spode, Minton etc.
Are there any tiny impressed marks under the glaze on the base? Often very hard
to see, unless in the right light and with a glass.
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Post by r-and-f June 15th 2015, 8:42 pm

Hmmm . . . I saw the identical green apple mark on the base of a similar blue-decorated pot in an auction in West Lothian a couple of weeks ago.  You can just see it on the extreme right in this photo copied from the online catalogue:

Anyone recognise this mark on this tea pot? Auctio12

Just wondering if this is too much of a coincidence? Lots of fakes about . . .
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Post by NaomiM June 15th 2015, 9:11 pm

Do you know what the catalogue had it listed as?

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Post by hercules brabazon June 15th 2015, 9:58 pm

Some more here, catalogued as "An early 19th Century teaset, possibly Worcester, each piece decorated with hand-painted cartouche panels of stylised exotic birds and flowers against a powder apple green ground with gilt rococo scroll frames ... most unmarked, some painted with a green apple and a bumble bee.
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Post by denbydump June 15th 2015, 11:11 pm

Hmm, so they didn't know either. Not shown as a Worcester mark in Goddens,
this could run a bit.
BTW a nice pair of Desvres on the front row!
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Post by r-and-f June 16th 2015, 11:04 am

All the pots and vases in the picture from the West Lothian auction (including the pair of Desvres and nice pair of Gouda vases) were together in one lot typically described in the catalogue as "Various jugs and vases". So no help there. I didn't stay on to see if they sold or at what price, as I left early having seriously overspent.

Interesting to see that the lot at Fieldings went unsold. Clearly bidders there weren't sure either.
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Post by seandux June 18th 2015, 10:27 pm

Hi All. Sorry for the delay in getting back. Couple of things to feedback. I've been in touch with the Royal Worcester Museum. Apparently because of UK government cutbacks they no longer can supply any id services. Pity. So no help there. The second is that I think this is earthenware. The pot is not translucent when you hold it up to the light. I'm no expert but I was told this is the best way to test for porcelain/bone china - correct me if I'm wrong please. So maybe a Worcester copy? Mid 1800's?
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Post by studio-pots June 18th 2015, 11:19 pm

That is a way to test if it is porcelain/bone china but a much quicker way is to look at the foot ring as I did and that tells you straight away that it is not porcelain/bone china because of the grain and the colour. There is absolutely no doubt that it is earthenware because of that.

However, Worcester did make items in earthenware and parian ware in the 19th century but from the images your pot does not have the quality that you would expect from Worcester, so I feel confident in stating that it isn't Worcester.

To say that it is a copy is perhaps true but in the pottery industry firms were copying other companies wares all the time if they sold. I think the lack of a real pottery mark is the real deception or an attempt to do so.

Finally, I just can't be convinced that this is 18th century. To me it looks like a 19th century piece in the older rococo style.

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Post by szjon September 12th 2023, 1:14 pm

I came across this thread while researching a teapot I got as part of a lot at an auction in Montrose, Scotland. Seems I have the matching teapot to your coffee pot. Same bud finial, same embossed leaves, same colour, mark and design. Have been researching it for a while and never come up with anything similar, (I trawl google images) I find the thing intriguing as there has clearly a lot of work gone into it but for just a humble earthenware pot. I wonder if maybe they are training pieces perhaps? The lid of my teapot is not a great fit.
Mine has a B on the edge of the base in gilding, it has the same B on the underside of the lid also. Would love to find out where it was made, it has me flummoxed though. Nice to see I'm not alone I guess....

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Post by denbydump September 12th 2023, 3:43 pm

The B will be the decorator's mark, a different one on the coffee pot.
Usually there's a gilder's mark also, which there seems to be on the coffee pot.

It might be something obscure like Rockingham.

Just a thought, is the mark a rebus for APPLEBEE or APPLEBY?
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