Experts

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Experts

Post by big ed on June 1st 2013, 3:47 pm

I hate the term experts , but that aside ( I hate lots of things ) Laughter , is there any Experts on the works of Lucie Rie ? in the manner of Cyril Frankel , or Emmanuel Cooper around these days , my minor research has thrown up Zilch on this subject, Iv'e had, to be honest pathetic answers from so called experts on the subject of her work , auction house owners only know what they sell and that is a miniscule ammount in the big scale of things , I spoke to the curator at paisley museum , who very kindly showed me personally a collection of LR 's work and that blew all the experts I have emailed outta the water, talk about contradiction , I have to say on this Forum credit to SP who has given me an honest opinion and guided me towards further research on the work of Dame LR , it appears that unless "experts" have a great big initial on something they are Screwed as to the origin , sherlocks they ain't imo , we need more specialists on past potters or info will die a death .
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Re: Experts

Post by bistoboy on June 1st 2013, 6:28 pm

can't help you with names of any experts, but strangely your question came on the day my partner brought home a book called, " Lucie Rie & Hans Coper. Potters in Parallel". Edited by Margott Coatts by Herbert Press in association with Barbican Art Gallery . I'm sure there are other books with far more biographical info about these potters, but this one has lots of good pictures and most interestingly, info about the glazes they use and working methods.
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Re: Experts

Post by big ed on June 1st 2013, 9:38 pm

Thanks Bisto , I will have to have a look at what books there are available and see what I can find ,Ta Excellent
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Re: Experts

Post by skay on June 1st 2013, 9:48 pm

I'm actually an expert on Bay Keramik, seriously Snooty Ask anyone.

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Re: Experts

Post by studio-pots on June 1st 2013, 10:24 pm

Cyril Frankel is still around somewhere in Spain but I can't narrow his whereabouts down any more than that, so really a non-starter but he is most certainly the Lucie Rie "expert".

He knew, visited and bought from Lucie Rie long before his auction house days when producing and directing the likes of The Avengers, Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased) and Department S for the TV and thousands of her pots went through his hands while working for Christies, Phillips and Bonhams. No-one else is going to have that level of experience.

Of course that doesn't mean he is an expert on all studio pottery, as I imagine he would admit, but other than him I can't think of anyone else whose opinion I would class as anything other than that when it comes to Lucie Rie's work.

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Re: Experts

Post by dantheman on June 1st 2013, 11:21 pm

his last published article appears in the Ceramic Review;Jan/Feb2012, Issue 253, p19

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Re: Experts

Post by big ed on June 2nd 2013, 7:33 am

thanks for that , I thought the old boy wouldn't be around anymore, not that there would be any chance of contacting anyway , I think it's a shame in a way that the knowledge that some dedicated people have gleaned over the years can disappear in a blink and we are left speculating on this and that , not just on my interest ,pottery but plenty other stuff too .
PS need to find some forensic experts Big Laughter
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Re: Experts

Post by dantheman on June 2nd 2013, 8:47 am

some of Cyril's knowledge will remain after his death

Modern Pots: Hans Coper, Lucie Rie and their Contemporaries: Hans Coper, Lucie Rie and Their Contemporaries - The Lisa Sainsbury Collection

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Re: Experts

Post by big ed on June 2nd 2013, 11:03 am

That's true Dan , but you can't beat the hands on approach though .
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Re: Experts

Post by philpot on June 2nd 2013, 10:32 pm

Cyril Frankel was born in December 1921.....
Fakes of course can even fool the auction houses.
Remember this story back in 2008.Lucie Rie fakes sold by both Bonhams and Christies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2008/may/02/art.ukcrime

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Re: Experts

Post by studio-pots on June 3rd 2013, 12:11 am

philpot wrote:
Fakes of course can even fool the auction houses.
Remember this story back in 2008.Lucie Rie fakes sold by both Bonhams and Christies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2008/may/02/art.ukcrime


Things that are not even fakes can fool many of the auction houses most of the time.

I never saw any of Mr. Broadway's fakes but they did fool a number of people, who I would have thought would have known better, so I suspect they were pretty good. It ought to be noted that it was after Cyril had retired that those fakes came on the market.

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Re: Experts

Post by philpot on June 3rd 2013, 7:53 am

If you are looking for just images of course.the best sources are the historical data bases of the major auction houses.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/searchresults.aspx?entry=rie&searchtype=p&searchFrom=header&searchSubmit=Search
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Re: Experts

Post by philpot on June 3rd 2013, 8:01 am

Nothing like seeing things in the flesh though. Used to be a hobby of mine viewing the contemporary ceramics auctions of the major London houses. A wonderful education.
Pity being all those vanished from the scene from 2007 onwards. The little Studio pottery around in the London houses now,tends to have morphed into the modern design or decorative ceramics sales.
Still Dan,if you want to look at a substantial number of Lucie Rie pieces at auction.Get thee down to Bonhams before June 19. Laughter
http://www.bonhams.com/search/?q=lucie rie&main_index=lot&past_sales=future&_sub=1#MR0_page_main_index_result.results=1&r0=5&q0=lucie%2Brie&MR0__sub=1&MR0_past_sales=future&MR0_main_index=lot&m0=0

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Re: Experts

Post by philpot on June 3rd 2013, 8:03 am

mmmmm....
That link did not seem to work.
Just put 'Lucie Rie' into the main Bonhams search box.
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Re: Experts

Post by Potty on June 3rd 2013, 10:46 am

philpot wrote:If you are looking for just images of course.the best sources are the historical data bases of the major auction houses.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/searchresults.aspx?entry=rie&searchtype=p&searchFrom=header&searchSubmit=Search

Goog link thank you, I never realised their past results online went back so far. Most Excellent

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Re: Experts

Post by skipposal on June 3rd 2013, 9:53 pm

I saw a wonderful show of Rie and Coper's work at the Middlesborough Institute of Modern Art in 2008 mima website. A great selection
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