Is it Staffordshire ?

by **petet63** March 19th 2013, 8:31 pm

I dont normally look at these pieces but this just caught my eye. Is it a Staffordshire piece. If so how do I find out about it. My searches only bring up the thousands of pieces out there but nothing like this. The back is mostly white and the base is unmarked. The Main figure is using the gun as a cudgel and seems to be fending something off. Any ideas ?? A Title to try and search for would help. I have tried a few my limited imagination allows and found that you still have to be very very careful about what you put in searches Embarrassed

It may well just be a cheap imitation but I would also be pleased to learn that if nothing else.

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by **NaomiM** March 19th 2013, 8:38 pm

Need a photo of the back and the base (especially the base) to give an answer.

by **petet63** March 19th 2013, 9:02 pm

I wont be able to get them for a few days but the bottom is Bird bath with no marks and just the small hole. The back is white with 3 bumpy/indented patches. (not a great description)

by **Potty** March 19th 2013, 10:24 pm

From the one picture provided it "looks right" to me, but more pictures are needed, there are many many fakes around, but one of us should be able to tell you if they quality is good enough to be an original at least. Not sure if anyone will be able to say for sure either way though, as some fakes were really very good.

by **NaomiM** March 19th 2013, 11:02 pm

It looks to be a quality Staffordshire piece, but it can be difficult to tell the originals from the fakes and reproductions:
http://www.mystaffordshirefigures.com/repros.html

Personally I like to see a layer of grime in the corners and cracks as an indicator of age.

by **NaomiM** March 19th 2013, 11:21 pm

Googling Staffordshire Highlander threw up another example - search google images with the phrase sixteen various staffordshire pottery figures and you'll see it as the second one in.

by **petet63** March 20th 2013, 3:43 pm

I am chewing my nails now lol. The actual figure I have and the one you found at Christies are identical in the form of the mould etc but are done in a different colourway. I assume that this is a common practice as some pieces of other pottery are more valuable in different colours. I am really tempted to list it as I have a holiday coming up and need some spending money. I usually go for glass but this just caught my eye and my radar went off. The figure does have those 'Grimy' places about it and it wont be me cleaning it Happy

There are the usual flakes of paint missing but I cant find a break anywhere apart from the base which does not ring hollow as a cracked piece would . Hope the pictures help. Thanks for the help so far

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by **Potty** March 20th 2013, 3:51 pm

Hi Pete,

The grime in places is a bit of a non factor in my opinion, as this too is often faked and some rare originals can look nearly new.

That said I do believe yours is an original Victorian (I would expect late Victorian) piece.

Be aware that I'm no expert and have no specialist knowledge in these figures, so may not be correct. (as said before, the fakes can be very good)

by **petet63** March 20th 2013, 4:28 pm

Thanks Potty. It just has that feel about it to me that says its genuine. I am less knowledgeable than most on here but my radar seems to be working well this week Laughter

A nice piece of Flygsfors for £3 then this piece. When I list it there will be a lot of pictures to help people see what it is. I know prices vary a lot but should still get some holiday spends. First holiday in 6 yrs Clap

by **NaomiM** March 20th 2013, 5:48 pm

Colours vary, but your piece looks consistent with a Victorian colour pallet. Can't be 100% certain but I'd accept it as a Victorian piece. Looks to be a firing crack on the base with is nice and dirty, which I, personally, like to see.
Don't expect too much for it, though. Prices for Staffordshire figures have fallen significantly in the past few years.

by **skay** March 20th 2013, 6:50 pm

My late Mum had a similar Staffordshire Scotsman all her life, from her Grandmother. It remains with her widower atm, and as Naomi said isn't valuable.

I hope I get it eventually, just for sentimental value.

xx

by **NaomiM** March 20th 2013, 7:05 pm

It's nice that their noses are complete. I have a Staffordshire peice from my grandmother featuring the young Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and both are missing their noses.

by **big ed** March 20th 2013, 7:22 pm

According to an old english pottery book I have a number of kilted highlanders were made in scotland, for local distribution , other "staffordshire" figures were also made in sunderland and other localities, characters were base on real and fictional people production was going from 1850- and for the whole of the victoria reign right up until 1918 , In 1948 some figures were revived and were still going in 1956 ( date of my book ), Colours of originals were Rich dark Blue , pink orange, green and black , some decorated with gold .I can't say one way or another as to the age of this piece as I haven't a clue about this type of stuff .

by **petet63** March 20th 2013, 8:31 pm

I suppose like everything this piece is worth less now than it was but I would be happy with even a small profit. It all adds up. This is unusual because of the lack of damage. There are no breaks or chips only the bits of flaked colour. I am sure if it was cleaned it would look ten times better on the listing but I like to leave that to a buyer. I buy crystal and the first thing I do is give it a clean, its like unwrapping the crystal to see its shine. If this was cleaned and properly colour restored it would great. (I am tempted to clean it but don't think I should) Its listed now so we can see how it does. Thanks for all the advice.

by **r-and-f** March 20th 2013, 8:47 pm

My first thought was that this is a Scottish piece. It reminds me of similar types of flatback figures made in various East Coast potteries in the 19th century, e.g. Portobello, but I haven't seen this model before (but am no expert). The scene might represent the Highland Clearances, and many popular stories of the time featured landlords or factors wielding cudgels against farmers and driving them off the land. The person most hated was one Patrick Sellar, agent to the Duke of Sutherland, so the kilted figure might be him.

If it is indeed Scottish, then it might have a better value than a Staffordshire piece. If I were you, I'd send a photo to a Scottish auctioneer for an appraisal. Lyon and Turnbull in Edinburgh should be able to help. Or you could email the Scottish Pottery society.

by **petet63** March 20th 2013, 9:21 pm

r-and-f I have sent a message and will wait for a reply to send pictures. A quick look and I have seen similar styles to Staffordshire. It is an interesting thought. I am glad I found this piece as I always like to learn more from those that know better than me. I look forward to seeing where this leads.

by **Potty** March 20th 2013, 9:34 pm

They could well be Scottish or from another part of England, though as I understand it, they would still be deemed "Staffordshire Figures".

by **petet63** March 21st 2013, 5:13 pm

I have had a reply. It do like it when the Auction Houses help out and sometimes writing to the maker gets an answer for the little guys (me mainly Happy

)and the people on here sharing their knowledge is great.
It confirms what was thought originally. It has already got a bid with a fair few watchers but I think a few people on this thread have hit the Watch button as well Laughter

Hopefully it will do ok. Thanks for all the help, its been interesting and informative, much appreciated. Pete

by **skay** March 21st 2013, 6:41 pm

petet63 wrote:I have had a reply. It do like it when the Auction Houses help out and sometimes writing to the maker gets an answer for the little guys (me mainly )and the people on here sharing their knowledge is great.
It confirms what was thought originally. It has already got a bid with a fair few watchers but I think a few people on this thread have hit the Watch button as well Hopefully it will do ok. Thanks for all the help, its been interesting and informative, much appreciated. Pete

What happened then please, what did they say?

xx

by **petet63** March 21st 2013, 7:07 pm

Really sorry ! I did have it copied but didn't paste.

Dear Pete,

Thank you for your email and images. Your first instinct is correct – it is a piece of Victorian Staffordshire pottery, recognisable from its base and design. Staffordshire made many different types of figures and figure groups, and Scottish ones were no exception. This is a nice one, and perhaps it is based on the Clearances given the nature of the family’s defence pose, but this is merely conjecture on my part. I have found the same group valued at £50-£80 on an auction records website.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Theodora Burrell

Interiors sales

Lyon & Turnbull
33 Broughton Place
Edinburgh EH1 3RR

by **skay** March 21st 2013, 9:29 pm

Excellent! Good guess about the Clearances r-and-f!

xx

by **studio-pots** March 21st 2013, 11:10 pm

.............. and as you say Pete, good of the auction house to take so much trouble.

by **r-and-f** March 22nd 2013, 3:28 pm

Glad you got such a quick and helpful response from Theo at Lyon & Turnbull. Hope the sale gets a good result.

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