Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 7:06 am

Kirkmodern

Fantastic vases ! I'm a fan of the Poole Freeform/Contemporary ranges but these are something else again.

Quick question for you. Every now and then I've heard a rumour that Stid Lindberg spent some time at Bitossi doing some vases for them for the American market under the Raymor brand. I've seen some Bitossi vases that are very similar to the "falling leaves" pattern so was wondering if this was actually true or whether Bitossi simply copied some is his designs. Do you know anything about this?

Kurt
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 9:01 am

I've never heard that rumour or seen it in print anywhere - how interesting - I'm sure Geoff (Kirkmodern) will know if it's true or not.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 11:46 am

It's frustrating - I read about it a couple of times on American design chatrooms and didn't take a screen grab. Now, when I need it, I can't find anything. Here's one of the Bitossi vases in question. You can see the obvious similarity.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by dantheman on August 2nd 2010, 12:57 pm

truk10 wrote:Kirkmodern

Fantastic vases ! I'm a fan of the Poole Freeform/Contemporary ranges but these are something else again.

Quick question for you. Every now and then I've heard a rumour that Stid Lindberg spent some time at Bitossi doing some vases for them for the American market under the Raymor brand. I've seen some Bitossi vases that are very similar to the "falling leaves" pattern so was wondering if this was actually true or whether Bitossi simply copied some is his designs. Do you know anything about this?

Kurt

Jefferson won a travel scholarship in 1952 visiting Scandinavia and meeting Stig Lindberg ,this influenced him greatly especially after working under Agnete Hoy when he was at art school in Milton

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 2:39 pm

I'm a bit lost on this Dan. Jefferson arrived at Poole after the Freeform range ended.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 2:40 pm

truk10 wrote:It's frustrating - I read about it a couple of times on American design chatrooms and didn't take a screen grab. Now, when I need it, I can't find anything. Here's one of the Bitossi vases in question. You can see the obvious similarity.



I've had pieces with the same decoration but, as you say, they're Italian - mine all had 'Italy' on the base but funnily enough I've remarked to my husband in the past about the similarity in design to the Stig Lindberg pieces. I don't think they're Bitossi production however. I suspect that there might have been a bit of copying (or influencing) going on with regard to the decoration .... The Scandinavian designers are well known for influencing a lot of areas of design including pottery & glass.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by dantheman on August 2nd 2010, 2:44 pm

sorry Kurt,I was speaking generally about the Scandinavian influence at Poole,both Guy Sydenham and Alan White have reproduced lots of scandi designs

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 6:37 pm

As luck would have it, here's a lamp with the story that I'd heard ....

*LINK TO LIVE AUCTION REMOVED IN LINE WITH OUR COMMERCIAL POLICY*

I'm pretty sure I've seen one with Raymor written on it in the past.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 6:58 pm

Hi Pip
Is there any reason why you don't think their Bitossi? Here's another - different Lindberg style pattern but certainly looks like Bitossi pattern numbering to me.

http://www.hiandlomodern.com/IMAGES/CERAMIC/ITALIAN/stripedItalvase.jpg

So, at least to me, it seems pretty likely that Bitossi made them. And Bitossi have a history of getting outside artists come in . So it doesn't seem outside the bounds of reason that there might be a Stig Lindberg connection.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 8:37 pm

That style of hand numbering/base marking is in no way unique to Bitossi and was used by a *vast* number of potteries operating throughout Italy during the latter half of the 20th Century. It doesn't look like any Bitossi production I've seen and I'm afraid I'm still totally unconvinced these are from the Bitossi factory. Furthermore, the very knowledgable dealer who owns that item (who also sells a lot of Bitossi) has attributed it simply (and correctly in my view) as Italian - not Bitossi.


Last edited by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 8:44 pm

Kurt - I'm sorry but I've had to remove your link to the eBay auction - we don't allow commercial links on the forum if they're offering items for sale. However I looked at it first before removing it and, as with many eBay attributions it's vague, doesn't provide any evidence for the assumptions made and is merely one person's opinion - not fact. Unfortunately.

With regard to you having seen one with the Raymor label on it - entirely likely, since Raymor commissioned pottery from many Italian potteries (not just Bitossi) and rebranded them for sale in the US.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 2nd 2010, 10:47 pm

Pip wrote:Kurt - I'm sorry but I've had to remove your link to the eBay auction - we don't allow commercial links on the forum if they're offering items for sale. However I looked at it first before removing it and, as with many eBay attributions it's vague, doesn't provide any evidence for the assumptions made and is merely one person's opinion - not fact. Unfortunately.

With regard to you having seen one with the Raymor label on it - entirely likely, since Raymor commissioned pottery from many Italian potteries (not just Bitossi) and rebranded them for sale in the US.

Hi Pip

No problem - what's the correct etiquette for discussing items on ebay on this forum?

Regarding the description on the ebay item - Yes, I know the listing is vaque and not evidence of any link. This was the reason for my original post - to try to find out if it was any truth in it as I've heard it a number of times.

Kurt
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 11:04 pm

Here's a link that explains the board position on commercial links

https://www.20thcenturyforum.com/how-to-use-this-forum-please-read-before-posting-f11/commercial-external-links-t5467.htm#44215

With regard to the Stig Lindberg/Bitossi 'myth' (let's call it that for now) - a large proportion of what I read on eBay I take with a huge sack of salt and you'll find once someone has said something it can get picked up and regurgitated as fact many times over and very quickly - the eBay self-perpetuating myth machine.

My position is I definitely don't believe they're Bitossi production but they *are* Italian (another factory obviously but which one I don't yet know). Whatever factory it was could well have been one that had dealings with Raymor so finding one with a Raymor sticker is perfectly possible/likely. They could also have had a connection with Stig Lindberg however - I don't know enough about him or what he did if/when he visited Italy and the potteries he may have worked for/with but my gut feeling is that the decoration on these have been inspired by his designs. But this is a gut feeling - not based on anything concrete.


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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by kirkmodern on August 2nd 2010, 11:10 pm

First off - I don't have a definitive answer! My gut feeling is they are cheaply produced copies, made in Italy and of inferior quality. It is true that SL had a love of Italy, he used to holiday there and when he retired he moved to S.Felice Circeo where he died a couple of years later, in the biog from the National Museum in Stockholm is says that he opened his own small studio in Italy to produce his own work. I find it unlikely that a man who thought of himself as an artist, was at the forefront of the fight to get legislation to protect copyright for ceramics factories in Sweden would then end up banging out cheap badly made copies. I have handled a couple of the Raymor/Bitossi pieces and they don't have the quality of decoration or the vibrant colour of the originals. The only people who ever attribute these pieces to SL are people who are trying to sell them. There is a piece listed on a US site at the moment that states their lamp is signed 'Stig- made in Italy' - highly suspect. The bottom line for me is, if you are going to collect Stig Lindberg, then collect Stig Lindberg, the reason they are so sought after is because they are so good.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 2nd 2010, 11:13 pm

Geoff - do you have any evidence that they're Bitossi production? Apart from that point I agree with you completely.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by kirkmodern on August 2nd 2010, 11:40 pm

Sorry Pip, no I don't. The pieces I handled where simply marked "Italy" or "made in Italy". Most of the listings are vague about the attribution and rarely show a photograph of the base. The "Spectrum Leaf" lamps having been turning up now for a couple of years, but worryingly there seems to be a few new pieces on the scene, a large leaf bowl and a lidded gourd which is on Ebay and looks like it was painted by a 2 year old! I will research the possible Bitossi link and post any findings.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Pip on August 3rd 2010, 9:39 am

There is no link other than the base markings which, as I explained earlier, were used by *many* Italian potteries at the time. If these turn out to be Bitossi production (which they won't) I'll eat one.

I'm sticking with my original theory - these are not by Bitossi, they were produced somewhere at another as yet unknown pottery in Italy, the decoration is nothing to do with Stig Lindberg but inspired by (or copied) from his designs.

The Bitossi and Stig Lindberg stories have grown from one person originally making the tenuous connection in their head, putting it in a listing on eBay and VOILA - the myth began and has perpetuated itself.

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by truk10 on August 3rd 2010, 12:09 pm

Hi Geoff

Thanks very much for the reply. I think the Bitossi attribution has come from Bitossi being a supplier for Raymor. As these items are Italian and (at least some of them) made for Raymor, there is the assumption that they must be Bitossi. Which, as Pip says, is a leap too far. But my main question was simply to find out the truth as to if there was any connection between Stig Lindberg and these items.

Regardless of the Italian producer, it seems curious though that if Gustavsberg/Lindberg were very anti copyright infringement, that a reputable company like Raymor would have not only brought copies, but had their name put on them. Maybe it was a calculated risk or there is enough difference to avoid copyright infringement.
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by kirkmodern on August 3rd 2010, 1:44 pm

Hi Kurt,
Stig Lindberg fought to be 'classified' as an artist and therefore to claim copyright for his designs, but he wasn't successful and there were lots of designers influenced by his work and some plagiarists who just made cheap copies. There are some licensed copies out there.... when the retrospective exhibition was on in Stockholm they re issued some Bersa pieces and some of his fabric designs. I think that was OK because the patterns were always printed and not hand painted, I am less sure about the McDonalds Bersa paper coffee cups that were used (image att.) although they were a bit of fun, but personally I draw the line at the re release coffee cups with "falling leaves' pattern. This pattern was always supposed to be hand painted and the beauty is in the choice of palette, the subtle changes in size and perspective to enhance the organic shape of the piece. The modern mugs are flat and stiff and the shape of the mug is as far from organic as one can get. In the end it is a personal choice.
To answer your original post.... yes I also collect Poole Freeform and often display them side by side with SL pieces, they compliment each other really well. I will post a photo!
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by andywooders on December 20th 2010, 11:04 pm

Hi
I attended both exhoihibtions both at the Design Museum and at the Gustavberg fctory in Stockholm-wonderful exhibitions

Just another contribution. John Clappison went over to Stockholm in the early sixties I think he said and I think he met Lindberg. He told me that it was such a great experince to go to Sweden and see the work of these influential designers-you can still buy seconds at the factory but as I was travelling for a month through Europe I couldnt risk the weight!!!!
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by kirkmodern on December 20th 2010, 11:46 pm

Thanks Andy, great to know that JC met Stig Lindberg and certainly makes sense.
I also collect John Clappison pieces and they sit very happily with the Scandinavian designers. Another piece of the jig-saw!
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by Davee on December 23rd 2010, 9:39 am

Just trawling through some of my old pictures and came across this, another Italian piece clearly influenced by Lindberg


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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by big ed on December 23rd 2010, 4:59 pm

Or maybe old stig was influenced by the Italians , ............., you never know . Laughter
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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by dantheman on December 23rd 2010, 5:05 pm

this is a subject that has always intrigued me,I have traced lots of English pottery design back to Stig but who influenced him?

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Re: Stig Lindberg's influence on other designers

Post by kirkmodern on December 23rd 2010, 5:31 pm

....well, he was originally employed in Gustavsberg by Wilhelm Kage, who had originally trained as a painter and studied with Henri Matisse, so there is a definite influence that was passed on. He was always fascinated by Italy and Italian artists and that influence is definitely present in some of his more figurative work, (have a look at some of the faces he painted in Karneval series).
I think his throwing and glazes are definitely influenced by Kage and Carl Harry Stalhane, the organic shapes and patterns are a trend that was really taking off around the mid forties and there was a lot of cross contamination with his contemporaries such as Gunnar Nylund but also form other countries such as the work of Eva Zeisel. The work coming through Midwinter in the 50s from Terence Conran and Jessie Tait was (I, think) most heavily influenced by Stig.
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