Japanese Stoneware vase for ID

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Post by abstract*toad November 13th 2021, 3:22 pm

Large stoneware vase, toasty wood fired ? glaze, similar to Muchelney. Slightly compressed with incised decoration, gold lustre applied.
Possibly marked 79 and initialed to the base, though the letters are so small and a little indistinct, to my eyes at least.
Any help with ID appreciated.

Japanese Stoneware vase for ID Img_2533
Japanese Stoneware vase for ID Img_2532
Japanese Stoneware vase for ID Img_2531
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Post by abstract*toad November 13th 2021, 3:23 pm

Japanese Stoneware vase for ID Img_2535
Japanese Stoneware vase for ID Img_2534
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Post by studio-pots November 16th 2021, 11:35 pm

It looks Japanese to me.

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Post by NaomiM November 17th 2021, 12:48 am

Agreed.
Imo, likely to be a commercial pottery making handmade pots for the decorators market

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Post by abstract*toad November 17th 2021, 8:25 am

Thank you both, much appreciated 👍
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Post by studio-pots November 18th 2021, 8:20 pm

NaomiM wrote:Agreed.
Imo, likely to be a commercial pottery making handmade pots for the decorators market

...... and I didn't want to say that but she's right you know.

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Post by NaomiM November 18th 2021, 9:36 pm

I’ve had a few. Very nice pieces, even so.

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Post by abstract*toad November 19th 2021, 3:08 pm

I'm curious, if either of you don't mind, please can you tell me what I am missing? I'm presuming this has come from a mould, produced in high numbers... What are the giveaway signs that I'm not seeing?
I'll be glad to learn something new. Some of you folk have likely forgotten more than I actually know, so I'd be grateful for any feedback 🙏
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Post by studio-pots November 19th 2021, 4:33 pm

Japanese factory pieces are often going to be throw by production throwers, as they used to be in the UK in the past. I remember back in the 1990s visiting a massive shop selling all kinds of factory made Japanese ceramics in N.W. London. The range and type was vast but generally the prices were inexpensive compared to commercial British pottery. So the first point to make is that I have seen loads of it.

Mostly you can tell by it being too "clean" and precise without any life but again that comes with experience.

Regarding, this vase I have seen similar. The flower decoration I find vomit inducing but leaving that aside the glaze effect is suggesting that it was wood-fired when clearly it is not. That for me is the real key.

So with everything it just a matter of seeing the stuff and handling it.

The very first time that I bought a Japanese pot in a signed wooden box was an interesting learning experience for me and taught me to go with my instincts. I thought that the box was a good box and so should have a good tokkuri (sake bottle) inside it. I had doubts about the sake bottle, which was white porcelain with blue brush calligraphy on it, but it was cheap and worth the risk. When I showed it to a young Japanese potter that I knew she smiles and told me that the calligraphy was the name of a restaurant and the address but written artistically. I was right about the box being made for a good tokkuri but obviously that had been kept.

So keep looking, keep learning and go with your instincts.

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Post by Haltia November 19th 2021, 4:42 pm

Hello,
Meisan Kiln  à Shigaraki.
not molded but well turned
it is not particularly commercial more than anything else
it is of course not a living (or dead) national treasure but still a good quality object
it's just vintage
and they had boxes Happy
https://www.google.com/search?q=%E4%BF%A1%E6%A5%BD%E7%84%BC%E3%80%80%E8%8A%B1%E7%93%B6%E3%80%80%E6%98%8E%E5%B1%B1%E4%BD%9C&client=firefox-b-e&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_lumW7aT0AhVRz4UKHSCmDqIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1054&bih=595&dpr=1.5#imgrc=FKmZZAJkVOraQM
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Post by studio-pots November 19th 2021, 7:43 pm

Haltia wrote:Hello,
Meisan Kiln  à Shigaraki.
not molded but well turned
it is not particularly commercial more than anything else
it is of course not a living (or dead) national treasure but still a good quality object
it's just vintage
and they had boxes Happy
https://www.google.com/search?q=%E4%BF%A1%E6%A5%BD%E7%84%BC%E3%80%80%E8%8A%B1%E7%93%B6%E3%80%80%E6%98%8E%E5%B1%B1%E4%BD%9C&client=firefox-b-e&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_lumW7aT0AhVRz4UKHSCmDqIQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1054&bih=595&dpr=1.5#imgrc=FKmZZAJkVOraQM

Sorry but I have to disagree with most of the above but it could be 10 or 20 years old and I agree that it is thrown.

However, this vase would never have had a box, it was not made by an individual potter, it's factory made (I have seen whole displays of similar pieces on show in a retail environment) and it's not wood-fired like the traditional Shigaraki pottery is.

P.S. I am very fond of real Shigaraki pots.

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Post by Haltia November 20th 2021, 8:50 am

I have not talk about the cooking. Obviously there are also gas ovens and electrics potter's wheels in Shigaraki .
I have not said "individual potter". I havea just said what i have...
There are all kinds of productions in Shigaraki (I went there). From tableware to artist's ceramics, including tanuki satuettes, tiny workshops and big workshops (or small factory as you want) . Sometimes the same potter has a commercial production and more personal pieces.
And shops like Daimaru have send this type of products in the 80's and even very commercial items are entitled to a wooden box... What is the problem ?

I'm not an English speaker so maybe I can't explain myself more.

https://www.meizan.co.jp/history/
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Post by abstract*toad November 20th 2021, 11:51 am

Thank you both, Studio & Haltia, I appreciate your feedback.
The links are greatly appreciated Haltia, very kind of you to share my friend 😊🙏
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Post by NaomiM November 20th 2021, 12:30 pm

Thank you, Haltia. Your link has reminded me that I have 2 pieces of this type of pottery. I can’t find the posts in this group so I’ll look up the original photos and post them again.

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Post by studio-pots November 20th 2021, 9:26 pm

Haltia wrote:I have not talk about the cooking. Obviously there are also gas ovens and electrics potter's wheels in Shigaraki .
I have not said "individual potter". I havea just said what i have...
There are all kinds of productions in Shigaraki (I went there). From tableware to artist's ceramics, including tanuki satuettes, tiny workshops and big workshops (or small factory as you want) . Sometimes the same potter has a commercial production and more personal pieces.
And shops like Daimaru have send this type of products in the 80's and even very commercial items are entitled to a wooden box... What is the problem ?

I'm not an English speaker so maybe I can't explain myself more.

https://www.meizan.co.jp/history/

I apologise if my reply to your original post caused offense but I thought it suggested that the vase in question was better than it actually is. Your second post above explains things much better than your first post and in more detail than my post.

I think the problem lies in the fact that Shigaraki is one of the 6 Ancient kilns of Japan and traditional Shigaraki pottery has a level of acceptance in Europe as it does in Japan. Although this is pottery made in Shigaraki it is not the pottery that Shigaraki is revered for.

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Post by Haltia November 21st 2021, 9:44 am

studio-pots wrote:
I apologise if my reply to your original post caused offense but I thought it suggested that the vase in question was better than it actually is. Your second post above explains things much better than your first post and in more detail than my post.
no problem
we have in french some phrasing very special
and with the traduction it's perhaps difficult to understand
in substance that's it : not the problème of de quality buth of the style
this is an object vintage a little "désuet"
but perhaps in more years he will become collectors   Laughter  like fat lava or other


I think the problem lies in the fact that Shigaraki is one of the 6 Ancient kilns of Japan and traditional Shigaraki pottery has a level of acceptance in Europe as it does in Japan. Although this is pottery made in Shigaraki it is not the pottery that Shigaraki is revered for.

yes but just for connoisseurs
in Japan if you say that you want to go to Shigaraki to see ceramics, we will usually tell you "oh yes that's where we make tanuki; but you can find it in stores here"  Laughter
an in Shigaraki i have ask where is the ancient kiln in the street ans many people dont know Sad

as Vallauris in France
there is Picasso
and ceramic lamp molds   Waaah
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Post by studio-pots November 21st 2021, 1:23 pm

I have not been to Shigaraki but have exhibited work by potters that lived in Shigaraki. Two of them now live and work in North Carolina, USA but I remember them showing me videos and photographs of Shigaraki and the tanuki statues (Japanese raccoon dogs) are everywhere in the town.

We laughed about the "plague of tanuki" but, as you state, the Japanese people seem to love them.

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