Maltby boat picture: Anybody ever seen a Maltby signature like this?

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Post by NaomiM Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:49 pm

There is still a lot of snobbery about buying off ebay, as though those pots aren't good enough to have been sold at a proper auction house, despite the fact that several Galleries like Oxford Ceramics Gallery sell on ebay too.

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Post by croker Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:53 pm

Hi NaomiM ,I am not sure about the snobbery aspect in buying off Ebay ,i think it all depends on what's on offer ,for instance if you collect Maltby , woolwork, leach family or cardew pottery wares there is always a good chance of finding something to your taste .I have a friend who runs an Ebay shop and does quite well and most of his customers have never seen the inside of an auction room(he sells watches and jewellery). As you know with Ebay you can be confident in buying due their returns policy whereas in an auction you are on your own .I buy books regularly on Ebay but have never bought a pot although i missed one a few years ago by john ward.
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Post by dantheman Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:59 pm

We had a similar situation with Poole pottery 20 years ago,
A group of collectors (who had more money than sense) would try to outbid each other every Sunday evening.
Ebay and sellers made a lot of money but the bidders lost their shirts

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Post by 22 Crawford St. Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:26 pm

croker - mainsteaem. All the other 'arts' fetch massive prices. Our little hobby is seen as a curiosity when compared to oil paintings and sculpture. You can patronise the very best of our living ceramic artist with a few thousand quid - try buying a Hockeny or a Hirst you will have to sell your house.
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Post by philpot Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:29 am

With Ebay its just there at a click of a button. Its a a huge worldwide audience. Its just the convenience of it all.
With terrestrial auctions it is somewhat different. While auction houses have become generally more Public friendly its still somewhat complicated and a faff. Catalogues are only there for relatively short times. You have to specifically ask about condition reports, and even then there is a lot of ifs and buts in the language. The final hammer price is not what the final price. Buyer's commission and charging for using online platforms varies. Generally Buyer's commission if often circa 30% including VAT. Saleroom the most common(although one of the most expensive!) is 6% including VAT, and even then you have got to be 'Approved' to bid!
Then if that is not bloomin well enough you have got to get it. Arrangements for this are totally chaotic, and vary from saleroom to saleroom. But the one guarantee is that for ceramics it is usually expensive! Then you do not have cast iron certainty it will not be broken!
Bidding at terrestrial auctions is not for the novice!
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Post by NaomiM Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:09 pm

The advantage of auction house over eBay is being able to handle the piece before buying. Numerous times I’ve been caught out by a chip or crack buying on eBay, or the piece is a bottom heavy student piece which just happens to have a nice glaze hiding the defects

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Post by croker Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:31 pm

The postage costs from auctions can be fairly pricey and can add a further %8-%10 for items under £1500.
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Post by philpot Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:21 pm

NaomiM wrote:The advantage of auction house over eBay is being able to handle the piece before buying. Numerous times I’ve been caught out by a chip or crack buying on eBay, or the piece is a bottom heavy student piece which just happens to have a nice glaze hiding the defects

Realistically speaking Handling an item is only possible for auction houses near where one lives. Equally it has been very difficult/impossible for the past 18 months.
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Post by NaomiM Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:47 pm

Very true. And then you're limited to a couple of photos at best, and a condition report.

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Post by MCWebs Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:53 pm

Yes... It's 100% Cocha!

The very first pot i ever owned was a John Maltby Wall Clock boutgh from the Roundhouse Gallery in 1997 in Tutbury (since moved) who stocked many works from John and bought direct from him - Everything about this Boat is 100% as far as my experience goes and matching it against my own model.

100% legit even to the black splashes on the back... I'd have bought it if i'd have seen it.
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Post by philpot Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:16 am

Now this is a curious Beastie. A wooden painted Maltby  model in the style of John Maltbys modern sculptural work.Very unusual if it is real.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/aldridges-of-bath/catalogue-id-srald10148/lot-53cf5a14-db8a-4673-b506-adf800ca5c7d
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Post by 22 Crawford St. Fri Dec 10, 2021 11:38 am

I'm not a big fan, but the signature looks about right, I doubt it ill go for that estimate, even I would take a punt at that price.
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Post by studio-pots Fri Dec 10, 2021 2:58 pm

philpot wrote:Now this is a curious Beastie. A wooden painted Maltby  model in the style of John Maltbys modern sculptural work.Very unusual if it is real.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/aldridges-of-bath/catalogue-id-srald10148/lot-53cf5a14-db8a-4673-b506-adf800ca5c7d

It is described as - A PAINTED COMPOSITION MODEL INSCRIBED TO BACK “ROYAL BARGE JOHN MALTBY" and everything in that description is true, as it doesn't state that it was signed by John Maltby.

It is in the style of his later sculptural pieces made decades after his wooden items and is roughly glued at the back.

The estimate suggests that the auction house and the vendor don't think it's really by Maltby and there should be some back story/provenance to go with it. For example, if Mike, a dealer that I know, who visited John Maltby up until the end of his life, had it then I would believe it was made by John.

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Post by NaomiM Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:24 pm

philpot wrote:Now this is a curious Beastie. A wooden painted Maltby  model in the style of John Maltbys modern sculptural work.Very unusual if it is real.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/aldridges-of-bath/catalogue-id-srald10148/lot-53cf5a14-db8a-4673-b506-adf800ca5c7d

It has been mentioned that at times he was too poor to make & fire pottery so had turned to making collages. I expect it dates from that time. Signature and style looks right.

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Post by croker Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:03 pm

I would have to agree with studio-pots , i have dealt with this auction room and believe me if they thought this piece was right they would have advertised it as just that , many collectors are not familiar with auction house terminology .I have learnt over many years to firstly ignore any signature , assess the item and then if it seems fine then look at the signature again (just looks like his style is not good enough) provenance is the key . Nothing about this piece rings true to me from the earrings to the gilded studs and the overall crudity.
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Post by studio-pots Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:12 pm

NaomiM wrote:
philpot wrote:Now this is a curious Beastie. A wooden painted Maltby  model in the style of John Maltbys modern sculptural work.Very unusual if it is real.

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/aldridges-of-bath/catalogue-id-srald10148/lot-53cf5a14-db8a-4673-b506-adf800ca5c7d

It has been mentioned that at times he was too poor to make & fire pottery so had turned to making collages. I expect it dates from that time. Signature and style looks right.

That was around 1980 and a little later when he was making his stylised painted pottery, so this has no connection to that body of work, when his sculptural pieces were yet to be thought of.

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Post by croker Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:43 pm

I see the auctioneers description has now added the  words  'a copy of' to the description.
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Post by studio-pots Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:18 am

They might have read this thread. Cheeky

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Post by NaomiM Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:47 pm

I suspect someone like Nigel Dutt had a word

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Post by 22 Crawford St. Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:55 pm

Went for £26 - What was the consensus here - real / not real?
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Post by MCWebs Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:58 pm

I would say be very studious buying Maltby at the moment as there are some that i consider very strongly as fakes - the quality of some is very debatable!!!
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Post by 22 Crawford St. Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:14 pm

Yes but this was an outlier, made from wood but in the shape of ceramics. TBH it was well worth the punt at that price if a couple more turn up which can be proven then its worth x10. If not then you can get a tenner for it or chuck it on the fire and keep your toes warm for 10 min.
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Post by NaomiM Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:15 pm

Signature and style looked right to me. Tbh, sometimes the experts get it wrong because it’s not something they’d buy from the potter; they can afford the good stuff and this is the equivalent of a doodle Shrugs

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