Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese?

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Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Empty Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese?

Post by stardust* October 9th 2015, 10:32 am

I'm clutching at straws here... I don't know where to start. I've had this years in a box in the garage, bought initially because I liked the shape. There's no ID so it's reliant on finding something similar on computer search which is proving difficult (the glaze looks a bit darker than celandon) or someone having some experience and a bit of advice. I don't know if it even fit's into 'Studio' pottery category. Can anyone help?
It's 18cm tall

Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1023

Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1025
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Post by NaomiM October 9th 2015, 11:07 am

Japanese is possible, but it's not a shape I've come across before, and from the photos I'm not sure if it's  a celadon glaze on porcelain. Might be earthenware. Is it crazed? Trying to decide if it's 20th or 19thC

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Post by stardust* October 9th 2015, 11:19 am

No it doesn't seem to be crazed, I've included some close ups to try and show the glaze better.

Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1026
Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1027
Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1028
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Post by denbydump October 9th 2015, 1:19 pm

The Japanese art pottery you may be thinking of, is usually a very gritty clay,
resulting in a very rough foot-rim, this looks smooth.
The shape is consistent with 100 year old art pottery, but by who?
Get some cream cleaner on that foot rim!
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Post by stardust* October 9th 2015, 1:50 pm

Done it.... cleaned with cream cleaner.

Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1029
Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1030
Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? Img_1031
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Post by NaomiM October 9th 2015, 1:54 pm

It does look like a gritty clay.

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Post by denbydump October 9th 2015, 4:29 pm

The base looks properly turned and finished.
That Japanese stuff is like house brick texture! so a very rough foot.
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Post by stardust* April 1st 2016, 8:42 am

Just as an update, the vase has been accepted and included in a fine art sale with a reserve of £100!

mod edit due to breach of advertising rule

I'd like to say thanks for the help and opinions of knowledgable members of the forum.

Fingers crossed...I'm thinking new extension to the house


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Post by NaomiM April 1st 2016, 10:53 am

Most Excellent

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Post by Mordeep April 1st 2016, 11:45 am

You did very well to get it into a fine art sale with a £100 estimate. I would not have given it an attribute that would have carried that price. I have seen that shape an awful lot and it's always been attached to pottery made by the Salopian art pottery company who produced between 1882-1912 in Ironbridge Shropshire. Of course they could have been copying Japanese designs but it is the spitting image of what I have seen before by them. They also had a habit of forgetting to mark items Waaah Hope the auction goes well for you anyway Excellent
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Post by denbydump April 1st 2016, 12:08 pm

Yes agreed, I have seen Langley, Denby, Linthorpe and Torquay use that shape also,
though it's not any of those. yes hope you do well with it.
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Post by stardust* April 1st 2016, 6:16 pm

Well....maybe a shed then. Thanks for shattering my dreams guys!
seriously though, the more opinions the better, can open up new ways of thinking..and better late than never.
DD and Naomi always had some doubts about the Oriental origin I had presumed. I've had a peek at some Salopian art pottery on the internet, and from what I can see you're right Mordeep, it is very similar to my pot. It's all possibilities with an unmarked vase but I appreciate the ideas.
We'll see, it is an attractive vase, I think...and if I bring it home again, I think I'll keep it Happy


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Post by studio-pots April 1st 2016, 8:37 pm

I would certainly value the opinion of mordeep and denbydump over most auction valuers on a vase of this nature but the auction going public seem to have rather more faith in auction houses than they really deserve............... so I think the extension is still possible. Cheeky

Has anyone said why they think it's Japanese?

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Post by denbydump April 1st 2016, 9:29 pm

Yes SP, nice pot, but it just ain't Japanese!
Let Bamfords do their stuff....

I've had lots of the Japanese art-pottery pieces c1900 in those plain glazes, usually oxblood, but the blue also.
The foot-rim screams at you, quite distinctive, if only I had a piece at the moment I could photograph and compare.
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Post by stardust* April 1st 2016, 11:25 pm

It was me, I put "Japanese?" in my title, my mistake.
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Post by studio-pots April 2nd 2016, 7:57 am

stardust* wrote:It was me, I put "Japanese?" in my title, my mistake.

Putting Japanese with ? in your title is quite valid but that can't be why the auction "expert" has said that it is Japanese can it?

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Post by stardust* April 2nd 2016, 9:32 am

Sorry sp, tired when last posted and didn't read your question properly.
I had already had an online quote for the amount stated just based my basic description, which included "Japanese". On valuation day back in January, it was extremely busy with one "expert". It was less a consultation, more a show and tell. The vase had a very quick feel over and I was asked what I thought it was. I mentioned poss Japanese, 19th century and the online quote. Immediately she entered it into the fine art sale. I did naively expected them to tell me what it was at a later date once the real "expert" had taken a look, but having seen the catalogue entry for the auction it seems my word is good enough.
At this point in time I hadn't heard all the ideas which have been put forward recently on the forum, which just go to prove where the experts really are.
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Post by studio-pots April 2nd 2016, 11:55 am

So I'm wrong.............. it was based on your opinion. Embarrassed

To be honest when I look through thesaleroom.com at auction listings around the country I do think that what the seller says something is must often ends up as what the auction house says it is. For example, I recently saw a typical Louise Darby vase in a sale as by David Leach.

I shouldn't worry, as if it doesn't sell as Japanese it can always be re-entered in another sale as British Art Pottery. you get two bites at the cherry that way.

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Post by Mordeep April 2nd 2016, 1:46 pm

Auction houses simply do not have the depth of experience to identify all the items presented to them. The people on this part of the forum have a passion for ceramics and will in most cases be able to identify something easier than the auctioneers. Saying that most auction workers have a very wide understanding of the value of items but they are not experts. Us people here know more about less  Embarrassed

When it comes to things like your item though it is difficult. These are after all English copies of imported ceramic shapes with glazes inspired by those from the far east. So picking out what is an English copy or an English design based on something imported is a nightmare without points of reference. We all learn all the time and each fair I attend, each auction I preview and each expert I talk too increases what I know. It also helps that I have been able pick up the odd out of print book Most Excellent I am still going to be far behind some of Studio experts on here but in my part of the ceramic map I hope I hold my own Excellent
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Post by stardust* May 13th 2016, 8:33 pm

Well after scrapping the £100 reserve, I said goodbye to this pot as the hammer fell at £65...I'm more than happy.
Thanks to everyone who posted, for your part in it's id...It's been emotional.
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Post by denbydump May 13th 2016, 8:44 pm

Wel done SD, I would probably had that on my stall for £15 unmarked!
I wonder if the buyer thought they knew what it was?
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Post by denbydump May 13th 2016, 8:48 pm

studio-pots wrote:So I'm wrong.............. it was based on your opinion. Embarrassed

To be honest when I look through thesaleroom.com at auction listings around the country I do think that what the seller says something is must often ends up as what the auction house says it is. For example, I recently saw a typical Louise Darby vase in a sale as by David Leach.

I shouldn't worry, as if it doesn't sell as Japanese it can always be re-entered in another sale as British Art Pottery. you get two bites at the cherry that way.

Funny, I bought my first Louise Darby vase many years ago (cheap) at the big Brum, thinking it could be DL, took ages to find out
what it actually was, but hey, I still have it, a nice piece...
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Post by studio-pots May 13th 2016, 8:51 pm

denbydump wrote:Wel done SD, I would probably had that on my stall for £15 unmarked!
I wonder if the buyer thought they knew what it was?

They might even join the Forum and ask for an opinion. Cheeky

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Post by denbydump May 13th 2016, 8:57 pm

Oh dear, Schardenfreude!
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Post by denbydump June 12th 2016, 4:04 pm

Coincidentally I just picked up the type I vase I was trying to describe, with the
deep, gritty foot-rim, quite distinctuve.

Turquoise glaze fluted ribbed neck vase. No mark. Japanese? 100_3013

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