What has done badly?

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What has done badly?

Post by 22 Crawford St. on September 1st 2015, 10:39 pm

I'm asking what ceramics have lost value bigtime? Anything this Century? Gossware got me thinking and N. very honestly mentions mottoware made a loss, but what else has done badly? Have the classics done well ? Meissen? Have all decent studio pots increased in value and when did this start? 1990? 2000?

I don't have the same experience as some of you dealers.....not as venerable Shocked

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 1st 2015, 10:48 pm

Most things I was buying back in the 90s has lost value such as children's books, Corkscrews, nutcrackers,

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by 22 Crawford St. on September 1st 2015, 11:02 pm

No, ceramicwise? Have most post war British ceramics done well?

It's like the bloody traders - they can't lose in ia rising market - ALL the stocks go up and they still want millions for 'doing well' - has everything gone up?
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 2nd 2015, 12:18 am

I wasn't really collecting ceramics back then, aside from motto ware and Country Friends :)

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 2nd 2015, 12:19 am

...actually, Country Friends is probably resin so doesn't count.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 2nd 2015, 1:27 am

I did pick up a few pieces of TG Green, ceramic jelly moulds, and Belleek when eBay first started. Aside from a couple of rare bits they're probably not worth half of what I paid for them.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by climberg64 on September 2nd 2015, 8:16 am

Woolworths Homemaker used to be good but seems to have peaked and maybe going down?

Has Whitefriars had its day too?
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by denbydump on September 2nd 2015, 1:19 pm

I've said before it's supply and demand, like any other commodity.
The recession hit people's pockets, so demand for everything went down.

Whitefriars is a good example. Television hyped it up, people scrambled for it, good
bits went into orbit, but then of course people went into their attics, dragged out
the bits they previously had no idea what they were, and flooded the market.
The poor quality, but instantly recogniseable, fakes didn't help, but it is still a
steady seller.

Exactly the same could be said for Troika.

Studio on the other hand is different, as most is hand-made, in smallish
quantities, and each piece is unique to a degree. it's all down to whether
you actually like it or not.
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 2nd 2015, 2:27 pm

Yes, supply and demand. eBay and similar online sales sites hit the collectables market by showing everyone how common some pieces are.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by studio-pots on September 2nd 2015, 8:43 pm

Been dealing in pottery for 30 years and virtually all of the factory made pottery has peaked and gone down over those years. When I first started out Art Deco was the thing but apart from the rare pieces all of it is now sells for less than it did then.

As far as studio pottery is concerned the same can and does happen but as it is still a niche market it doesn't seem as obvious.

Back in the 1980s some of the current female potters, such as Janice Tsalenko, were making prices that I suspect they will never make again and even the prices of the "big names" flucuate.

For example, I remember when I first became interested in studio pottery Staite Murray pieces fetched high prices but then in the early 2000s interest waned. I thought that was the end of appreciation in his work so didn't buy pots by him. I should have as now they've shot back up again. I suppose the knack with all of this is buying at the right time.

In pottery the only thing that seems to work in the way that shares do is Lucie Rie, despite me over many years saying that prices can't go higher.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by Mordeep on September 2nd 2015, 9:40 pm

If I restrict myself just to ceramics and ignore all the traditional antiques that are now worth less than any time in the last 40 years. Then I would say very few ceramics are worth more than they did in the mid 1990's with the exception of ones that had a more recent rush like Troika.

The real problem of recent years has been supply. There has always been collectors for ceramics and always will but it has only been the last 15 or so years that collectors truly had much to buy. In the 1990's if you wanted to buy something like Poole for your collection you went to an antique shop, market or and antique fair at the weekend. In that time you had a limited range to choose from and you selected the best you could find. Today if I collected Poole I could log on to eBay and choose from 6615 listings available to buy. The same is true for all antiques and collectables.

This has resulted in important and permanent changes to collectables no matter the type.

The immense increase in availability has driven down prices on everything available.
The gap in value between perfect and not perfect has widened (why buy damaged when you can get better)
The true worth of something is easier to find out so there are more amateur sellers and less professional antique dealers.
The devastation of stand alone antique shops, antique centers and many antique fairs. They no longer exist in many towns or cities.

On a more positive note there have been some winners. The hardest to get, best examples, rarest and interesting ceramics have never been more wanted and valuable. In many cases the pinnacle of any collectable ceramic is now worth than at any time in the past. Any example I can give is the famous Martin brothers wally Bird tobacco jars. Ten years ago I could buy one for 5000, now depending on the type between 25'000-100'000.

So if I have a tip. Buy the best of anything. If you can't afford the best, buy one off hand made items by known artists and never buy anything that comes in its own box with a numbered bit of paper Insane
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 2nd 2015, 11:04 pm

There are things I've had on my wish list for 15-20yrs and still not come across an example, or if it did it was way out of my price range.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by philpot on September 3rd 2015, 10:02 am

The interesting development over the past few years is the widespread development of 'Vintage' shops. Often mainly clothes,as Vintage clothes have become extremely fashionable. But along with the clothes has come all the rest of the knick-knacks of the 70's and 80's. These shops seem to be popping up everywhere now.
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by dantheman on September 3rd 2015, 10:11 am

Yes they're the perfect way of introducing people to retro pottery which will help the market Excellent

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by philpot on September 8th 2015, 8:52 am

Was at a local auction the other day,where the seller had kept the receipts of studio pottery they had bought in the late 80's. An Elspeth Owen large vase bought directly from her cost 188. Hammer price 85.Pair of Alan Caiger Smith Red lustre goblets bought from Aldermaston cost 120.Hammer price. 110. A very large 44 cms Alan Caiger Smith gorgeous Red lustre bowl bought direct. Cost 460. Hammer price 540
Bear in mind, those items were bought direct from the potters nearly 30 years ago. Given inflation, they have lost value considerably. It would probably be the same story for a lot of gallery or direct potter purchases of studio pottery over the past twenty or thirty years.
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 8th 2015, 9:41 am

Yes, if you're buying for investment then best to get it secondhand rather than retail price. I expect if that person had bought from a gallery then their losses would have been even higher.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by dantheman on September 8th 2015, 12:21 pm

yet today I can buy directly from 2 potters and double my money the same week
it's a funny old game

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 8th 2015, 12:24 pm

Which ones, Dan? I'm guessing one is Maltby.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by NaomiM on September 8th 2015, 12:26 pm

The thing is, though, if you're buying from the potter then it's usually for decorative purposes, rather than investment. The fact that you can get Any money back on resale is just a bonus.

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by dantheman on September 8th 2015, 12:27 pm

then you would be wrong Nuh-huh

sorry Naomi but I do share 99% of my knowledge with others

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Re: What has done badly?

Post by philpot on September 8th 2015, 8:21 pm

Some potters obviously need to put their prices up! Laughter
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Re: What has done badly?

Post by 22 Crawford St. on September 8th 2015, 10:00 pm

Good luck to you Dan (just hope the potters don't read this?) nothing wrong with making a profit.

Shocked to see that ACS pieces went for so much at the time. They seem very sought after now, but I suppose everything 'settles' into it's position over time. Why buy ACS when you can have a Maltby? Why but a Maltby when you can .... why is that tile so expensive?

Thought SP and Mordeep have some very good points - and Ebay has changed the market place. I could never sit at work 20 years ago bidding live at auctions or on ebay. The World is a much smaller place, you can learn a huge amount from the comfort of your own home without ever buying a refrence book or visiting any exhibitions or auctions.

There are no antique shops any more in my town, all gone.




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Re: What has done badly?

Post by Mordeep on September 8th 2015, 10:15 pm

Yep antique shops have gone the way of the dodo. The small amount of Antique centers are soon to follow once the sellers realise its the landlord not them that make the money (nearly everyone I speak to is pulling stock out of them due to costs).

It brings you back to the basics. Luck really does not get you very far at the moment with antiques. The only thing that makes a long term difference is information. Being informed and constantly trying to learn about things you are interested in. No matter if you are in it for profit or to expand your collection it's the only way to go. Learning why something is valuable at the moment, in the future or should have a red sticker saying DO NOT BUY ME is a great help in avoiding throwing away money.


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Re: What has done badly?

Post by philpot on September 9th 2015, 2:15 pm

Fashion is the detertminant of a great deal of modern collecting,or not collecting. Minimalism and Open plan living have been the death of much.From brown furniture,to chintzy ceramics. But who the heck can tell where fashion will be in a few years. Mind you,I would not be investing in Troika nowadays. If the minimalist fashion wind changes-and it has been blowing the same way for a goodly number of years-then Troika is history.
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