LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 13th 2015, 9:29 pm

I believe most things are beautiful, or I could make a couple of bucks on it if I sold it.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by dantheman on August 13th 2015, 9:37 pm

beauty is in the eye of the beholder but some people's eyes are bigger than their belly

these motto's are really easy!

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 13th 2015, 9:40 pm

Never buy a pot you can't piss in.

You're right Dan, these mottos are easy

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by 22 Crawford St. on August 13th 2015, 10:55 pm

Which thread is this...I'm confused?
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 13th 2015, 11:54 pm

Mottoware, I think Big Laughter

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by climberg64 on August 14th 2015, 8:11 am

dantheman wrote:do you think the potter was pleased with them?

They said the glaze hadn't tuned out the way they intended. Didn't offer a discount though Waaah
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 14th 2015, 11:29 am

You are not obliged to buy work you've commissioned from a potter if it's not what you'd expected. Some, however, ask for a non refundable deposit to cover materials. I have a potter in the U.S. making me 3 yunomis in the shape and colours of my choice. Unfortunately something was lost in translation and he made them all the same colour! Still waiting for the two in the right colours.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by 22 Crawford St. on August 14th 2015, 10:00 pm

When in Rome?
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by denbydump on August 15th 2015, 12:32 am

A certain dealer at the fairs seemed to specialise in buying damaged ceramics,
that I like, restoring them (quite well), and them seliing them on as good.
I got caught once, took it straight back, and was reluctantly refunded.
The legendary Denby Cheviot vase, (smashed to pieces and rebuilt) was the
turning point. Not bought by me, but deception, even fraud could be suggested.
Still trading, but just walk straight past the stall. This trade is full of thieves,
crooks, con-artists, anything to get one over on you.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Mordeep on August 15th 2015, 1:17 pm

denbydump wrote:A certain dealer at the fairs seemed to specialise in buying damaged ceramics,
that I like, restoring them (quite well), and them seliing them on as good.
I got caught once, took it straight back, and was reluctantly refunded.
The legendary Denby Cheviot vase, (smashed to pieces and rebuilt) was the
turning point. Not bought by me, but deception, even fraud could be suggested.
Still trading, but just walk straight past the stall. This trade is full of thieves,
crooks, con-artists, anything to get one over on you.

Nothing kills your reputation faster than appearing to rip off people who buy from you.  If it's restored or damaged then the price and the information given to the customer has to reflect that. If it does not then people will stop buying from you and once the word is out then you may as well give up dealing directly to the public. It's one of the reasons I won't buy a bit of Doulton without shinning a blue light over it. I know of two dealers who are like a ceramics black hole, sucking in damaged Doulton and spitting out perfect bits. They have the most stunning looking displays at fairs, not sure they sell match of it though.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 15th 2015, 4:08 pm

A few years back I bought three vases from a dealer for £95 and eventually got rid of them this year for £38, less eBay fees. We still smile and nod as I go past her stall, but I'd never buy from her again.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by dantheman on August 15th 2015, 5:03 pm

I don't understand that one? Were the vases restored?

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 15th 2015, 5:59 pm

She had misrepresented them. I should have known better but I bought them as a punt thinking they were worth more. So my fault really. Probably comes under 'general mistakes'.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by climberg64 on August 15th 2015, 11:25 pm

NaomiM wrote:You are not obliged to buy work you've commissioned from a potter if it's not what you'd expected. Some, however, ask for a non refundable deposit to cover materials. I have a potter in the U.S. making me 3 yunomis in the shape and colours of my choice. Unfortunately something was lost in translation and he made them all the same colour! Still waiting for the two in the right colours.

Did you send them back, Naomi?
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Mordeep on August 15th 2015, 11:28 pm

Misrepresenting something is a tricky, grey area. It is all in then eye of the beholder. The seller can suggest an attribute they are not certain of or can't prove. Like  Christopher Dresser design link for instance when it can't be certain he was involved. The buyer can also trick themselves by seeing somethin in what they purchase that wasn't there, like a similarity to another work that is valuable. Best policy is if your not sure, tell the buyer and let them decide. But even that causes problems sometimes. I had someone try and bring back a bronze seal he had bought off my dad because he wasn't sure of its age. Not an issue but when I asked him, it turns out he had bought it two years previously and been trying to sell it. Her couldn't so he brought it back  Insane  

The bit it crosses over from a grey area to a red flag and a big NO is when the seller is not telling the truth, is telling a pack of lies for a sale. I have seen it countless times. The classic is the poor, confused, uncertain antique dealer. The one who is just not sure, it could be (insert famous name) but I haven't the knowledge, have not researched it, not had it long (delete any that don't apply). They pretend to be one thing when they are the opposite. 99 times out of 100 they know exactly what they have. Little old lady antique dealers are the worst. If you fell over near them they would have the filling out of your teeth and the shoes of your feet before you could get up. I think it is genetically impossible for them to give anyone a bargain.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on August 15th 2015, 11:46 pm

climberg64 wrote:
NaomiM wrote:You are not obliged to buy work you've commissioned from a potter if it's not what you'd expected. Some, however, ask for a non refundable deposit to cover materials. I have a potter in the U.S. making me 3 yunomis in the shape and colours of my choice. Unfortunately something was lost in translation and he made them all the same colour! Still waiting for the two in the right colours.

Did you send them back, Naomi?


He messaged me when they were ready and I pointed out the mistake and said I would wait for the other two. He agreed. It wasn't a problem as the other two sold quick to other customers.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by climberg64 on August 15th 2015, 11:53 pm

Good that they easily sold.

I would feel obliged if someone had done the work and I thought they would be out of pocket.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Potty on November 6th 2015, 8:21 pm

Not something I bid on but...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTERESTING-DAVID-LEACH-STUDIO-POTTERY-LUSTROUS-GLAZED-BOWL-/311472729724?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=hWDYrl%252FJAVyeKIwtc3AIHSzHj1M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Shock Shock

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Mordeep on November 7th 2015, 8:56 am

Was it a Lemon, Fake or a mistake? I am not sure I could tell a studio fake unless it was badly done and obvious.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by dantheman on November 7th 2015, 10:03 am

a mistake could be that low priced,bargain piece that you quickly snatch up and pay for only to find damage when you get it home Doh!

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Potty on November 7th 2015, 1:46 pm

Mordeep wrote:Was it a Lemon, Fake or a mistake? I am not sure I could tell a studio fake unless it was badly done and obvious.

Not an intended fake, but mis-listed on ebay by the seller, or so I believe Big Laughter

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2015, 2:42 pm

Potty wrote:
Mordeep wrote:Was it a Lemon, Fake or a mistake? I am not sure I could tell a studio fake unless it was badly done and obvious.

Not an intended fake, but mis-listed on ebay by the seller, or so I believe Big Laughter

Agreed. Wrong everything for Leach, but the mark was partially covered in glaze so inexperienced buyers could have been fooled.

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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by Mordeep on November 7th 2015, 5:53 pm

My area of expertise is art pottery and the web is awash with items described as "in the style of", "unmarked version of", "a trial version" and "designed by" 95% of those items are wrong. I think in the end it goes back to the old saying a fool and his money are easily parted. Buy what you know or like enough to not care.
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by denbydump on November 21st 2015, 10:59 pm

At the Edinburgh fair today, 2 spurious unrelated pieces of studio-ish pottery,
when turned over, had "Troiks St Ives" in magic marker underneath! the con-men
are still at it, 15 years down the line! Do I look at anything else on this seller's
stall? (no prices on anything anyway) ....errr no, walk away!
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Re: LEMONS,FAKES & GENERAL MISTAKES

Post by philpot on November 27th 2015, 7:35 am

The major problem with Studio Pottery is that most auction houses and most sellers at Fairs know next to nothing about it. In a major Edinburgh Auction house in the past few months, a big unmarked vaseobviously hand built marketed as Jim Malone with a hefty price tag.In no way did it look anything like his work.
In an auctioneers on the edge of London. A Peter Lane bowl,clearly marked with a Peter Lane mark, in the catalogue as by Lucie Rie!
A year or so ago an Oxford auctioneers had a lot of Janet Leach in their specialist design sale. No mention of damage.Yet every single piece I inquired about had some form of damage. Plus the usual Caveat of 'Only in the Opinion of'....
One could go on.As ever,its Caveat Emptor!
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