Wooley & wallis

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Post by ppcollectables on March 24th 2019, 3:30 pm

A lot/most/all auction houses have put up prices this year I think it partly coincides with not being able to charge more for credit card payments anymore. Not that I'm trying to make excuses for them. It just means you have to bid lower to take into account higher fees. Don't forget that 25% + vat = 30% and anyone daft enough to bid via the saleroom will pay another 7% on top.
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Post by 22 Crawford St. on March 24th 2019, 3:59 pm

Thieves in auctioneer's clothing
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Post by denbydump on June 3rd 2019, 9:16 pm

Some nice stuff

https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/departments/20th-century-design/da190619/?p=1&s=40&v=list
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Post by philpot on June 4th 2019, 7:13 am

Their Arts & Craft sale. Lot of lovely Martin Bros and Pilkington, but the studio offering is fairly minor. As a footnote to costs in previous postings. If you bid Online through the Saleroom the Buyer's Premium, Online sales Platform Premium, + VAT, add up to a whopping 35.9% 'Buyer's' charge. That does not include any Artists Right premium on the higher value items.
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Post by ppcollectables on June 5th 2019, 9:11 am

Like a no. of other auction houses they now offer their own on-line bidding which does not incur any extra fees.
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Post by 22 Crawford St. on June 5th 2019, 1:37 pm

Do you think that auction houses will go the same way as the high street and simply not be needed any more? All going online? If they gave better descriptions and some form of returns policy (not caviat emperor). I mean it's happen to many banks, video shops = *poof* gone! So in twenty years there may not be any auction rooms.
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Post by philpot on June 5th 2019, 5:17 pm

No, because terrestrial auctions operate under a different set of laws that does not make them liable to normal consumer legislation. The 'Caveat Emptor' is exactly how they do their business, and the law protects them.
In recent years of course, they have attracted a lot more joe public, and are acting more like normal galleries. So maybe in the future the law might be changed. But that is pure conjecture.
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Post by 22 Crawford St. on June 6th 2019, 8:22 pm

Perhaps these crazy high commission prices are symptomatic of the poor state of the provincial auction house ATM? Methinks they are becoming harder and harder to make money from.
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Post by philpot on June 7th 2019, 8:21 am

The buyer's commission has steadily increased since it was first introduced by the Big London auction houses three decades or more ago. With a lot more general public buying direct from auction, and the general winnowing of the antique trade, its only a logical progression.
Sothebys, Christies have gone substantially upmarket in the price level at which they start. Hence the demise of Christies South Kensington. So there is a very clear gap in the auctioneering market for sub a couple of thousand £ items. The gap that the provincial 'Fine Art' auctioneers, have tried to secure in the past decade. Some have suceeeded, some not done so well. The costs in terms of prestige offices, experts, detailed cataloguing etc are a good deal more than your average run of the mill auctioneers. Mind you, most of them are still part of businesses that do estate agency, commercial property, surveying etc which have been going for well over 100 (some 200) years.
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Post by ppcollectables on June 7th 2019, 9:59 am

I think Philpot has got it about right, art auctions are often only one strand of businesses. Also to attract quality items the sellers commission will often be a lot less than for buyers. I regard viewing at a quality sale like visiting the V & A but being able to handle all the exhibits. I know a lot of members think the internet is best but even ebay has steadily increased its charges - inc taking commission on postage ! - then there are paypal fees etc.
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Post by philpot on November 7th 2019, 6:33 am

https://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/departments/20th-century-design/da271119/?p=1&s=160&v=list#lot-318

British Art Pottery catalogue 27 November.   Loads of Martin Bros again. These often seem to dominate these sales now. Not too much Poole, but an interesting selection of Studio pottery from several private collections. Don't often see Mo Jupp at auction.
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Post by dantheman on November 7th 2019, 9:46 am

The Martin Bros pottery attracts me far more than the work of today's studio potters but 25% plus vat prevents me from bidding

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Post by philpot on November 7th 2019, 10:11 am

Problem is Dan, where else would you get it? Prices through the Antique trade would be far higher, and specialist galleries even more so. It not as if you can straight to the potter to buy Martin Bris stuff... Laughter
Mind you, it probably has been a good investment for some people. The Wally Birds alone now go for ten of thousands,
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Post by ppcollectables on November 7th 2019, 10:31 am

Dan, is it just a matter of principle because ultimately whether the total commission is 10% or 30% what only really matters is what you want to pay for something, it doesn't matter how that money is apportioned. As Philpot says it will be cheaper than other retail sources and it doesn't mean that bargains cannot be had at even the more prestigious auction houses.
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Post by dantheman on November 7th 2019, 12:12 pm

I might have been swayed by your very good points guys but if I add a fancy courier's fee to the auction house fee and the tax then it seems a little steep.
You have to remember I'm a Yorkshireman

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Post by ppcollectables on November 7th 2019, 2:11 pm

If I'm going to bid on something that isn't in my vicinity then it has to be good enough to warrant me driving to collect it and I'll then take fuel costs into consideration. Otherwise you've got too much to trust to others - not just the quality of someone's condition report but also the quality of packing and then the transport and delivery. Too many opportunities for problems for which there may be no 'come backs'. Also if I collect I can check the item before I leave the premises.
The other way is to have friends around the country who can collect items for you, which can work both ways.
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Post by philpot on November 7th 2019, 4:27 pm

Truth to tell Dan, you are obviously suffering from complete-overcollectivitus…. Happy
The true avid,rabid collector (who is not satiated!) will move heaven and earth and more, to get his heart's desire. Big Laughter Big Laughter
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Post by dantheman on November 7th 2019, 6:24 pm

it's just pots Shrugs

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Post by 22 Crawford St. on November 7th 2019, 9:03 pm

I agree with Philpot, others are looking to covert and infill missing pieces of their collection. Some have money to burn if the pot is right.

Dan,  methinks you have completely moved from from collector to dealer.

I looked through and I thought it was a really good sale. Something for everyone.
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Post by philpot on November 8th 2019, 7:04 am

We could really do with a thread on the philosophy of collecting Happy Or have we got one? Having recently downsized from a to a bungalow, we had to make some serious choices in what to get rid of. A good deal of the Leach inspired work of ours has gone, and a good deal of the slipware. But Mary Wondrausch and John Pollex still we have, but the Bowen's have gone. How do you make the choices?
Still interested in studio of course, and we will buy the odd piece here and there occasionally, but it will be more filling in gaps rather than trying to cover the whole gamut.
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Post by dantheman on November 8th 2019, 9:52 am

I would be interested in a thread that explores the psychology of collecting, for me the big game-changer came several years ago when I bought my Holy Grail piece of pottery, I was with a very seasoned collector at the time and he wisely predicted it would change my view on any piece I saw from that day on.

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Post by philpot on November 8th 2019, 11:19 am

eRRRRRMMMM…
So you obtained the Holy Grail, the Sum of all Heart's Desire. That possession turned you into a non-believer then? Big Laughter
The psychology of collecting has many books devoted to it, let alone a small thread. Good idea though. It seems a natural human trait. I bet stone-age man kept his collection of flint axes, and then boasted about the fineness of the cut,the incredible quality workmanship of the flint, the ultra-rarity of the type of flint blah blah .and succeeded in boring people rigid!
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Post by dantheman on November 8th 2019, 12:01 pm

I have noticed that many collectors chase the items that will impress other collectors and spend little time admiring the beauty of their most prized pieces.
I have often thought of selling pots but after looking at them through a magnifying glass I have decided they are far too beautiful to let go

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Post by philpot on November 8th 2019, 1:01 pm

What you are talking about there, is pottery as an Art Form. Throughout history, art in all its forms has inspired human beings. From literature, to paintings, to sculpture, to many other different forms. Great Art inspires the soul. The best pottery is part of that inspiration. Perhaps that is why we collect, and we vie for the very best of what we can get. Because great art is a thing of joy.
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Post by NaomiM on November 8th 2019, 3:14 pm

I find that if I’ve found the best of the best by a potter then I’m far less likely to buy from them again because there’s nothing that can bump that first pot from the shelves and replace it (proverbially speaking, because obviously I do rotate display pots), but the John Jelfs Jug is a good example of this. There are a couple I’ve bought from him since but although his work is superb I’ve been spoilt by having a great pot that I compare all else against

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