Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 3rd 2011, 11:52 pm

A chicken if ever I saw one.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 3rd 2011, 11:54 pm

Some Fish.

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 3rd 2011, 11:57 pm

2 small made & designed by Bill fisher dishes.



That's it for now. More with my thoughts on the bird design another time.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 4th 2011, 12:12 am

Dan - you tease, you know full well they did a 'king' range. I've just seen one in the pic's of your cabinets! But it's not the same mug that I didn't get (I store all the pic's I see on eBay). So now that's 2 mugs and 1 small slender vase I've seen in the king design.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on April 4th 2011, 12:22 pm

I was told there was a queen range but yours is the first one I have seen (she's superb!)

and the seahorse pics....

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 4th 2011, 10:45 pm

Seahorse will have to wait until I can take some pic's.

But, I would like to run my thoughts on the bird designs by you collectors. It's been bugging me for several years. So, I'd be interested in your thought on my views.

For some reason, the bird design seems to have gained the name Phoenix - but where did this name come from ??

As far as I have been able to find out, it actually represents a fighting cockerel.

Now allowing for variations in painting ability, there seem to be three basic bird designs and a few rare extras.

DESIGN ONE - the most common design, I would say clearly shows a fighting cockerel. Wings flapping, legs and claws raised in attack. Claws are always raised in this design.


DESIGN TWO - less common, but to my eye, if anything is, this could be considered a phoenix. More of a squat / plump design bird with legs allways splayed either side of body.


DESIGN THREE - again less common, I think this is a particularly nice example of it - note the water drops comming off the wings.
To me this looks like it could represent a Shag. They are a seaside bird, which does sit with it's wings spread like this - I believe it is something to do with warmth to aid digestion. The legs are allways on the ground and not raised in this design.


So fellow collectors, what do you think. Am I right, wrong or a bit of both ?? Your views will be greatly appreciated. It would be nice to try and get some standard names for what are 3 different designs, but currently all called the same.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on April 5th 2011, 1:23 pm

we often get this sort of theorising on the Poole collector's forum but 99% of the time it turns out to be whatever the paintress fancied when she was decorating a particular pot and with no reason behind it.
the last of the three birds looks to have feathers flying rather than water drops and is unlike any shag I have seen (I had one nesting outside my lounge window for years)

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 5th 2011, 6:15 pm

I fully realise that the actual design varies depending on the particular artist, as well as the adapting to fit a particular shape.

But there are still these 3 distinct bird designs - they are not just a variation of the main design. Have (and seeing) many different examples of each design, I am in no doubt about this and they always follow the basic format that I have suggested. Have a good look through your collection and you'll see what I'm saying.

The are several others that at first sight look like they 'might' be a different design - but are nearly always just a variant of the cockrel. I have some you'd swear was a parrot.

Having double checked (I'm not a birder), it seems to be a Cormorant that has that 'drying' posture not a shag. But the images are just that, images not studies - the cockrel doesn't look particularly like a cockrel either. This does seem to be less common than the other two, but is still a definite seperate design.

The outspread wings are always distinct wings rather than the usual round wing of the cockrel. 'My phoenix' always has a distinctly chubby / fat bottom look.

Dan - if you want to send me your email address, I can send you quite a few pic's to clearly show that these are infact 3 different designs. Most I can't post on here, because I've just captured them from eBay sales and don't have copy right of them. I can also show you the only other 'queen' dish I know of, as well as the clown.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 5th 2011, 7:59 pm

Ah, those ones. Yep, I saw them when he first posted them one ebay over a year ago - asking about £100 each. They have popped up a couple of times. I think the middle one went, but I think the other 2 were still for sale last time I saw them. These are the only examples I've seen of this shape. I like the middle yellow one and the blue one is OK, but to me the other one looks like a reject - the image has burnt away in the kiln.

No, I haven't seen that scratched in tree design before - didn't actually notice it when I first looked at them the other day. Clearly early Mousehole mugs - which do seem to carry all sorts of 'experimental' images. I guess Bill just did however he felt at the time ? Lucky you!
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 6th 2011, 9:24 pm

Dave (and everyone else) here is what you've been waiting for.

What I call 'Aztec' design. I paid crazy money for it (on ebay)- but does that make me crazy, or would I have been crazy not to paid whatever it took ?




So, anyone seen anything even remotely similar before ? because I haven't.

I took pic's of several other really nice bits, which I'll add later on.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on April 12th 2011, 7:14 pm

a Newlyn bowl


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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by flying free on April 17th 2011, 1:02 pm

Unicorn in terracotta - is there some question over this being a Bill Fisher piece now? Unicorn 12 3/4" tall, total piece 17 3/4" tall.
Can't find a sig at the mo and no label. Bought in a shop in Cornwall in the 60's or 70's according to the owner who bought it.
Enjoy.
m


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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 17th 2011, 6:40 pm

I don't think they do 'know', I believe they have just taken the view that it is so similar it 'must be'.

Can you tell is it actually a sculpture/original or is it molded from an original. I had assumed the 'fired' one was a sculptured 'one off'. But as there are now more of different sizes, I'm guessing they are probably molds - Like the wonderful figures Andrew Hull did for Cobridge and now himself.

OK, here are my Bill Fisher singers.





Got these a few years ago off eBay for a ridiculous amount of money - under £20 (I think) Shocked Not perfect, but even so, I expected a lot more than that. As you may be able to see - the tallest has been badly broken and glued back together. The next has a small chip missing from his hat. The next is perfect and the last has tips missing from his tash.

But they are some of the pride of my collection.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by flying free on April 17th 2011, 7:23 pm

Well I wouldn't say there are 'now more'. As far as I know there is now 'one more' of a different size, unless you have seen others? also, yes I am pretty sure that mine is a hand built piece. It is clearly by the same 'hand' as the Fired... site one, but the detail is actually very different as well. My uncle made a series of large wizards and witches. They were all a similar theme but they most definitely were not moulds, they were all hand built and I'm pretty sure this is in the same vein.
Like your pieces! they are lovely, I can understand why they have a special place in your collection
m
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by nick1512 on April 18th 2011, 11:07 am

The Unicorn on the Fired site was sold by David Lay auctions in Penzance about six years ago.It was listed as Bill Fisher and sold for approx £300 to £350. About 3 weeks later the Fired site had it for sale on e.bay. Think they were asking about £1000 to £1500 for it.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by flying free on April 18th 2011, 2:10 pm

Dan, that's fab. Looking forward to hearing what you may learn.
I have tracked down that apparently Bill also made a table lampbase which was a 'sculptural knight on horseback height 20''' Couldn't find a pic though.

And I've managed to find a self portrait oil painting of him.
I'm going to have another search on my unicorn to see if I can find any markings. BTW it weighs 10lb!! so a pretty hefty piece. I'm always amazed large pieces don't crack during the firing.
m
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on April 18th 2011, 9:12 pm

I just spoke to Ian Box, he and his brother joined Maggie at her tiny cottage pottery in April 1967 shortly after Bill's departure,Ian's job was to make the vases and tableware which were all slipcast,he was only taught this aspect of the production as Maggie alone would decorate the pottery with birds in either blue and black or yellow and black.
"Maggie was tight lipped about the glazes and firing details, she definitely was not a teacher".Ian was paid £3.50 per week,when he asked for a raise it was doubled but the money wasn't enough to keep him there and so he left for Australia where he lived for 2 years before returning to Cornwall where he was taught by Bill Marshall,this led to an Introduction to Janet leach and lad to a 5 year job at Leach pottery.

I got the distinct impression that Maggie was a hard taskmaster and paid as little as possible which would lead to a mutiny some years later instigated by Anthony Frost who worked at the Celtic pottery Newlyn

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by flying free on April 18th 2011, 10:25 pm

Thanks Dan!
I've been having a mooch around and I'm curious. I appreciate that different pieces could have been made by Maggi or Bill, but can I try and clarify something? Was the Medallion range started after Bill left do we know?
Also I have some other thoughts
- re the Unicorn - the similarity to other decorated Folk horse sculptures and horse plates/pieces I can see, is, the unicorn/horse, the horse folk sculptures and the decorated horse pieces are all very 'pretty' with beautiful eyes. The similarity I can see between the Unicorn and the folk horse sculptures is that the head is drawn down towards the chest and is joined at that point on both. I see those as a link.
-- I also idly wondered whether Bill made these Unicorns after he and Maggi separated.
- Fired.. acknowledge that the Medallion range came about after Bill and Maggi split but then have a Medallion horse attributed to Bill Fisher. Is this because they were mould made and the design is Bill's?
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on April 19th 2011, 12:41 pm

I have read several times that the medallion range was introduced after Bill left and am 99% sure that this was the case,I always assumed it was a Gwavas pottery design which was adopted by Celtic pottery whe the two potteries combined

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by Celtic_Fan on April 19th 2011, 6:50 pm

flying free wrote:To Celtic-fan - I've just realised who your queen plate reminds me of so much..... Dame Maggie Smith! it's been bugging me ever since you posted it.
?? Will have to do a search to see what you mean.

Dan - that is what I understand. Medalion was brought 'to the party' by Eve when he joined maggie.

You frequently see Newlyn pieces credited to Bill Fisher. This seems to be just to attract attention to the piece.

Good to hear a little from Ian. Somebody really does need to interview those involved and write a book - before it is too late. Last I read Bill was still alive and living in a carehome and maggie is doing something totally different (can't remember what at moment). I'm sure there would be a demand for such a book - I'd deffinately buy one.
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by flying free on April 19th 2011, 10:01 pm

ok, that's how I understood it as well. I was just curious as to why they were attributed to Bill , so just checking. Thanks
m
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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on June 29th 2011, 7:32 pm





a nice unusual colourway on this lion vase
pics generously donated by Janet in Sennen

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by dantheman on June 30th 2011, 4:20 pm




rare colourway and design on this slab vase,again please use the quote button Janet to add details Excellent

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Mousehole Celtic mug

Post by dantheman on July 13th 2011, 2:21 pm





Early Celtic mug,sponged blue glazes,brushed pewter glaze and scrafitto


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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

Post by big ed on July 13th 2011, 2:25 pm

What a strange looking handle on that mug Dan , don't you think ?

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Re: Celtic (Newlyn & Mousehole)

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