German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

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German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by debbie32 on July 31st 2016, 8:35 pm

I have this lovely porcelain model of a couple dancing.  It seems old to me but the stamp seems quite new.  The colours are beautiful as is the design.  Im really stumped on the backstamp with the 5 pointed crown over a capital N in blue there is also an impressed number 388.  Any help or thoughts really appreciated.



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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by NaomiM on July 31st 2016, 9:58 pm

Potschappel, Germany, I think

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by studio-pots on July 31st 2016, 10:20 pm

It looks quite like a Capo-di-Monte porcelain mark from Naples, which closed down in 1834. At that time the moulds and models were bought by the Ginori porcelain factory in Doccia, Italy that I believe continues in various centres in Italy to this day.

After buying the moulds they were allowed to mark the reproductions with the crowned "N".

Therefore I think it might be a Ginori reproduction of earlier Capo-di-Monte. They made good quality reproductions from 1834 but your figure looks 20th century to me from the images.

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by NaomiM on July 31st 2016, 10:32 pm

It didn't look quite right for Capodimonte. The crown is a bit too fancy.

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by studio-pots on July 31st 2016, 10:48 pm

Capo-di-Monte used a number of marks but one was in under-glazed blue with the prongs like that but the base of the crown was not as deep but shaded in a similar manner. In that mark the N was the same font as here.

That's why I believe it to be a Ginori mark.

The only German mark that I have found with a vaguely similar crowned N was for the Ernst Bohne Sohne porcelain factory in Rudolstadt Volkstedt but that has a different font N and. although it has a five pronged crown, the base of the crown isn't filled in.

Carl Thieme's porcelain factory in Potschappel did for a time use a crowned N mark but the crown was completely different and the N was lower case.

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by Mordeep on August 1st 2016, 6:35 pm

Guys I am surprised there is a lot of debate on this.

I had about 20 items from this factory about three months back my brother sold on Ebay. It's Sandizell, Höffner & Co from West Germany. The numbers in the base and the liberal use of flowers is also a big sign it is them.  Made about 1960 from what I can tell from the signature. That is before they started adding words like Dresden even though they didn't make them there.
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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by studio-pots on August 1st 2016, 11:27 pm

Here is a link to information about marks used by Sandizell, Höffner & Co.

http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/germany/bavaria/sandizell-01/index.php

So which of these marks are you saying it is, Mordeep?

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by Mordeep on August 2nd 2016, 4:51 am

I believe it is closest to mark 1-05 but if you read the text the author claims that the crown shown in images 1-10 over a simple N exists but he does not have a clear picture of it.

Here is his text from the linked page you posted.
"One mark belonging to the Sandizell factory is a simple crowned 'N', sometimes above 'DRESDEN'. It looks like the mark shown as Image 1-10 but does not have the long text underneath (no text or 'Dresden' only = 1951+, with long text = 1972+). I am still looking for a clear picture of the older mark."

There is always a bit of doubt and wiggle room in these things but I think this is the factory. If it is not then we have two factories at the same date using identical marks (not impossible) on exactly the same type of ceramics. The figures is also clearly not 100 years old, its not fine enough and the colours are wrong. So that only leaves the Italian or German/Austrian factories producing this type of item.
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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by studio-pots on August 2nd 2016, 8:19 am

I don't profess to have any knowledge of such figures but when I first saw the image thought that it dated from the 1950s.

I have also read what the author of the page concerning marks used by Sandizell, Höffner & Co. states and do agree that it is possible that this is the mark he is referring too when he talks about still looking for a clear picture of the older mark. He also talks of other marks that haven't been confirmed as being used by this factory and again this might be one of those he is referring to.

These doubts plus the fact that this mark is significantly different from any of the marks shown on the page in the link I believe shouldn't give anyone the confidence to be certain that this figure was made by Sandizell, Höffner & Co. The reasons I say that is that in the Sandizell, Höffner & Co marks shown the N is as large as the crown or larger whereas on the figure here the crown is larger than the N. Also, although the crown used in the Sandizell, Höffner & Co marks shown varies over the years, there is not one the same as the one on this figure.

I have also looked at figures produced by Sandizell, Höffner & Co on the internet and haven't come across one stylistically similar.

Basically, what I am saying is that the figure could be by Sandizell, Höffner & Co but I don't think we can say that it is by them with any certainty based on the the evidence here. However, I don't believe knowing the actual factory where this was made would make any real difference to its value.

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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by Mordeep on August 2nd 2016, 8:57 am

The mark is not significantly different from the examples shown. Of course it's not exact but this factory has been shown to use a huge variety of marks over a very short period of time. No one can say its 100% them and it's right to say with this figure that probably has no impact on the value.

But

If it looks like a duck, is the same design as all the other ducks you see, feels like a duck and if you ask around people say " oh that's a duck". Then the chances are its a duck not a dog with a hat on.
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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

Post by debbie32 on August 2nd 2016, 10:19 am

Many thanks for all your comments and efforts. The reason I posted this was because there are so many different similar marks around that I wasn't sure who this figure was by, value didnt come into it. I'm still not convinced who the manufacturer is - but isnt it interesting that just a thicker line or a slightly different crown shape can make so much difference.
Thanks again - I really do appreciate your experience and time taken with this.
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Re: German figurine, crown over N - probably Sandizell, Höffner & Co, W Germany

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