art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

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art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 6th 2013, 5:45 am

Art Deco / Art Nouveau.
We have an old art deco Figure, dancer-woman ? bronze gilt. The peculiarity is that the head and hands are made ​​of aluminum / iron and extra sitting at the figure. I inherited it from my grandmother (Born 1904). The figure is derived at least from the 20-40s.
The arms, upper body and lower body are soldered together.
you know such a figure of the Art Deco / Art Nouveau?
What is the Name of this figure ?
What is the Name of the Artist ?
Is ist an Experimental Modell Figure ?
A photo I've attached to the email.
An art director of an Museum in Germany (bröhan Museum) has say´d. That it is an verry rare Artist Experimental Model ????
But he has not find the Artist Name.
I surch the Artist ore the manufacture !!!!
I hope in this Forum i become help.
Thanks
Hello, can I email someone my photos for the post

XXX.imgbox.de/show/img/7KYct2cbRn.jpg

XXX.imgbox.de/show/img/j46dfha410.jpg
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 6th 2013, 9:14 am

Welcome again experimental  

Your pictures didn't work. Please try this way: http://www.20thcenturyforum.com/t3970-how-to-upload-images-to-your-posts

xx

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 6th 2013, 10:05 am

experimental has sent me 6 pictures of the figure but servimg isn't letting me add the others to this post.  Here is the first.
 
 
 
Click to enlarge

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Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 6th 2013, 8:19 pm

     

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Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


22 Crawford St. wrote:No one likes clowns.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 6th 2013, 8:25 pm

Happy No. 6 is misbehaving, will try later.

xx

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Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


22 Crawford St. wrote:No one likes clowns.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2013, 1:25 am

It does look to be a period piece - 1920-30s. Possibly German or French. Bergman was the top manufacturer of cold painted bronze, but I'm not seeing the quality in this piece. Not come across heads made of aluminium - it's more likely to be spelter. The dress looks like it's bronze (unlikely to be gold because of the evidence of oxidation in the folds) but has been over cleaned/repolished. Without a manufacturer's number or signature it'll be difficult to track it down without specialist knowledge of cold painted bronze. Probably best to take it to one of the large auction houses and ask a specialist in Art Deco bronzes if they can identify it.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 7th 2013, 5:32 am

Hi, thanks for the reply. 2 experts of Art Deco Museum in Germany, have said it is what rare. The presumption is only gold plated. I have cleaned the body. Please help me continue my enlightenment in the figure. I am looking for any nformation and aid. Thank you.

Question: I was told the hands and the head served as a religion or belief to see how the arrangement work best with the finished model?. What should the extra hands and the head otherwise have a function?. They would indeed can also be cast together. The same is probably true for the arms and body parts.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2013, 11:53 am

Many art deco figures like this were composite, ie, made of different materials such as bronze and ivory, the fine details of head and hands being carved from ivory and then glued onto the body. Your figure, however, has its head and hands cast in another metal and cold painted. I doubt it was for any religious reasons, but simply because it was the cheaper alternative - the hands and face don't have the fine detail one would expect from a top maker. The head appears to have become unglued from the body.
If it was by a top maker it would be marked. Just because it's not a common figure, and thus technically a rare one, it doesn't necessarily make it experimental or valuable - collectors of such Art Deco figures look for signed pieces made of bronze and ivory and scantily clad or naked. As this figure has none of those things, it's purely decorative.
It would be nice to see a photo of the base.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 7th 2013, 12:22 pm

Hello. I have the message of 2 Dr. experts, it must be a design model. Therefore, even simple materials such as head, hands. It should only serve as a basic model. It would be too easy to say that it is insignificant. I lift anything comparable Royal on the Internet, found. Do you have an example, compared with the same model head. etc.?.
thanks dear


For information: why was the body s several cast share?. One does not know if it should be a cheap model. the cost is too high. To the figure many editing tracks are under the magnifying glass to see the show that's been crafted and mass produced.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2013, 2:08 pm

I may be able to tell more about it after seeing a photo of the base. It might be a maquette (a mock up for a larger piece), but then I wouldn't expect the head and hands to be painted. However, there are casting marks and pitting if the surface (especially on the back and neck) which one wouldn't expect in a finished quality piece, which may be why the experts called it an 'experimental' piece. The shape may represent a character from a play. But that's purely supposition.
As for why the head and hands were cast seperately, that was just the fashion in the Art Deco period.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 7th 2013, 5:24 pm

Naughty No. 6
 

 
Base pics to follow........
 
xx

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Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


22 Crawford St. wrote:No one likes clowns.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by studio-pots on November 7th 2013, 5:24 pm

I think that it is a working model used by the artist and so it is rare and maybe unique but that doesn't mean that it is valuable.

I imagine that the idea in the finished version was that the head and hands would be made of ivory but unless an actual finished version can be found and attributed to an artist and that artist was a significant maker then it frankly would have little value. Especially as the metal body has been polished, something that you must never do.

I think that if two Art Deco experts in Germany have seen the figure and can't attribute it to a maker then it is going to be very difficult to do so. It certainly does not have the style of the most collectable and valuable makers of such figures.

Maybe they have said that it is rare as they don't have the nerve to tell you that is only worth the scrap value of the metal, which is what I believe is the case.

Although I do not deal in this sort of thing these days it was something that I did deal in around 20 to 25 years so, although I am not an expert, I do have some knowledge of the subject. Sorry.Waaah 


Last edited by studio-pots on November 7th 2013, 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 7th 2013, 5:28 pm


_________________
Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


22 Crawford St. wrote:No one likes clowns.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by skay on November 7th 2013, 5:30 pm


_________________
Nic wrote:A WMF lady exposes her breasts at me every morning when I open the curtains

big ed wrote:Burt lancaster spat on me Sad

brin mcardle wrote:Probably no surprise...I love this

Taylor Thomas wrote:Have you got enough quotes Sue?

l33ham180 wrote:the wife wants massive

NaomiM wrote:...didn't even have the excuse it was for charity. Just liked his balls. Cheeky

dantheman wrote:I think it's shit


22 Crawford St. wrote:No one likes clowns.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 7th 2013, 6:10 pm


Hello, the body is not only cleaned and polished. One must really figure in the original right to see to realize what she has luster and uniqueness.
I'm not saying also that it should be a valuable piece. It is important to find out from which artist it was created.
My opinion: as long as a comparable piece does not appear, it is the ordinary, and especially for me. The design is not of the finest I know, but that's not entscheident. I'm still waiting for a response to a expert (Prof.Dr. from Berlin), but this can take time.

Down at the bottom of the figure are Gwinde to identify what it excludes, that it was mounted on a pedestal.

I am au factual knowledge in the Art Deco and answers about my figure.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2013, 6:12 pm

I agree with Studio-Pots.
It seems there would have been a pin in the hole in the back of the neck to keep the head on.
From the photos there appears to be the remains of clay or plaster inside the piece. Clay would point to a more professional artist. If it had had a thick core of plaster I'd have said made in China, but I don't think that is the case here.
I still suspect it is modelled on a character from a play or opera. Maybe that line of investigation would help to identify it's maker.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 7th 2013, 6:30 pm

hi, no, no china, asia product. It is an original character from 1900 to 1925. This was confirmed to me. Probably German, france?. On a threaded neck goes to the head of a screw as a fastening.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 7th 2013, 6:37 pm

It's useful to be able to say what something is not, even if one doesn't know what it is.

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 7th 2013, 6:45 pm

the same is true vice versa. You know nothing accurate, but write so much. I think you are familiar with figures not know. I have learned that it is an original model figure of the '20s. N O ASIA NO REPLICA.

For me it's just ineressant, who created this character and what exactly. She must make sense. The painting on the head fragments are still visible. The patina will come back with time. The lower part of the dress is still originally maintained. It would be great if you could help me with the solution. Sure it is not easy but that's the appeal of the figure.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by studio-pots on November 7th 2013, 8:23 pm

I am certain that it is from the 1920s/30s and suspect that it is German but would not be surprised if it was French or Austrian. I think there is no doubt about that.

Also the opinion is that is a working model and not the finished article and I think that there is agreement on that.

No-one has been able to tell who the artist was and I know that I am not able to do that. Maybe someone will and I realise that is all that you really want to know.

However, cleaning the body has basically ruined it hence my saying that it is only worth the scrap value. The patina will never come back. Even if it proved to be by a very important artist, which I doubt, cleaning it will have reduced its value to about 10% of what it would have been if it had not been cleaned.


Last edited by studio-pots on November 8th 2013, 4:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by NaomiM on November 8th 2013, 9:04 am

Sorry, I have nothing to add. No need to keep sending me direct messages. If I find out anything more I'll return to the thread.
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Re: art deco experimental Modell Figure Bronze / Gold with Aliminium Head HELP

Post by experimental on November 8th 2013, 9:27 am

I lift seen that some bronze kind(way) of Deco Figuren, etc. not a signature on the figure have, but on the marble base, base on which they are screwed together. It could be good which is similar it with my figure.??? It must not be signed also everything!
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